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Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

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Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#81

Post by hopelite »

bayindirh wrote: post #76
aDyslecticCrow wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we aren't careful with space debris [1], deorbit protocols [2], and anti-satellite weapons [3], we risk triggering a Kessler syndrome [4] and permanently blocking our access to space. We currently have no international space agreements outside of not putting nuclear weapons in space, which is wholly inadequate for managing the dangers and safety of space development. The only reason space has been managed decently…

> Don't expect this good behaviour to continue. I don't agree. Kessler syndrome is another M.A.D. scenario. Nobody would want it to poison the well for everyone incl. themselves.

The fact that the well is constantly being poisoned would belie that fact.

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#82

Post by Cthulhu_ »

MindSpunk wrote: post #16
9dev wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The only countries even capable of enforcing launch bans stand to gain nothing from them because it just makes launching their own payloads more difficult. There's like ~10 or so countries who are readily launch capable and even less with the military capability to put any pressure to stop foreign launches. Who's going to regulate? Regulation only works when someone has the power to enforce them. Right now the people…

> Who's going to regulate?

I will; when I am elected God-Emperor, I will set up a global defense network that will shoot down any unauthorised launches. I will also build a space palace, because I can.

Only half-joking; space will be regulated when one force becomes dominant and individual countries' rights are taken away, OR when the majority of countries, but specifically the biggest and most powerful ones, get to an agreement - but given the significant differences between e.g. the US, China, India and Russia, that's unlikely to happen anytime soon. So at the moment, a globally dominant world power setting the rules will be the likely candidate.

But first, there needs to be a tipping point of sorts, a line that is crossed. That'll either be space-based weapons or missile defense systems, or simply being out-competed. It'll be at least another decade plus billions of investments before any other nation or company can start to compete with SpaceX's launch capacity, and they haven't stopped yet; if Spaceship becomes viable they and the US will have a huge lead, and the launch capability to set up a global missile detection / defense / space offense network.

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#83

Post by hopelite »

9dev wrote: post #10
NoPicklez wrote: post #3

It's incredible how many satellites Space X have launched It's also surprising from a layman's perspective the "freedom" to launch rockets into space without necessarily needing permission, the originating country of course needs to approve it but none else

[flagged]

The UN is fundamentally and terminally flawed and always has been from the very beginning as ruse for what has always been a facade of “America’s” control of the world.

It is why the UN lair is right on the East River, a proverbial stone’s throw away from Wall Street, Madison Ave, and Broad Street in the heart of the American Empire of world domination.

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#85

Post by notahacker »

benjiro wrote: post #70
carlsborg wrote: post #13

> "Earth has 4550 satellites in orbit" Rapidly obsoleted information. SpaceX alone has > 7500 satellites in orbit. It added 2,300+ satellites in the one year period ending Jun 2025.

> It added 2,300+ satellites in the one year period ending Jun 2025. Take in account, that a lot of those are replacement sats for the first generations that they are deorbiting already. Do not quote me on this, but its a insane amount (i though it was around 2k) of the first generation that they are deorbiting. If there is a issue, its not the amount of sats in space, but more the insane amount of deorbiting StarLin…

Satellite constellations in LEO tend to have short design lives of 5 years or so, but the net change in operating satellites since that 2021 graphic is huge: Starlink alone has over 8000 in orbit now (plus another 1200 deorbited). The later generations of Starlink are bigger, but the launch cadence increases...

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#86

Post by pc86 »

NoPicklez wrote: post #3

It's incredible how many satellites Space X have launched It's also surprising from a layman's perspective the "freedom" to launch rockets into space without necessarily needing permission, the originating country of course needs to approve it but none else

Who else would approve it?

The country is the atomic unit of global governance. Everything else is just hand-shake deals and "promises." If your country says you can do something, you can do it.

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#87

Post by froglets »

kortilla wrote: post #22
fireflymetavrse wrote: post #12

Stats that are based only on the number of satellites can be very misleading as they don't differentiate between a 5 ton comm sat and an 1 kg cubesat.

Weight is irrelevant. They will all tear through anything like butter and break apart into thousands of pieces in a conjunction.

The amount of aluminum in a satellite matters because of the effect it has on the atmosphere when it burns up during reentry.

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#88

Post by wongarsu »

bayindirh wrote: post #76
aDyslecticCrow wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we aren't careful with space debris [1], deorbit protocols [2], and anti-satellite weapons [3], we risk triggering a Kessler syndrome [4] and permanently blocking our access to space. We currently have no international space agreements outside of not putting nuclear weapons in space, which is wholly inadequate for managing the dangers and safety of space development. The only reason space has been managed decently…

> Don't expect this good behaviour to continue. I don't agree. Kessler syndrome is another M.A.D. scenario. Nobody would want it to poison the well for everyone incl. themselves.

By that same reasoning everyone should be doing their best to avoid runaway climate change, yet here we are. The tragedy of the commons is tragic.

Things are more civilized in space, maybe in part because of the relatively small number of big players. But at the same time there are tentative signs that we might be in the early stages of Kessler syndrome. It's hard to tell, and by the time we can tell with certainty it might be hard to still act in time

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#89

Post by pc86 »

DemocracyFTW2 wrote: post #65
radu_floricica wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's... good? In more ways than one. The most obvious is that any international body would be easily controlled by the big players, so you'd end up with more centralized control by the same national entities, but now they'd be controlling other countries launches as well. The other problem is that lately international organizations have a pretty bad track record. Two examples, which I've chosen because they are act…

That police and justice courts don't catch every thief is not an argument to abolish the judiciary or make stealing legal. That police and judges habitually act in favor of certain people is likewise not an indication that a society without regulatory institutions is better off than one with admittedly flawed ones.

Police and courts have legitimacy because they are created by the sovereign nation. There is no sovereign entity above the nation - you're comparing apples and hammers.

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#90

Post by pc86 »

mhio wrote: post #30
N19PEDL2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Permission granted by whom? Agencies and companies that launch satellites are subject only to the laws of the countries in which they are based. And it is not even imaginable to have a NPT-like system where a few "special" countries have the right to launch satellites while the others don't.

That generally falls to the International Telecommunication Union globally, as a satellite without a radio is basically junk. Then maybe the 4(+) countries that can field anti sat weapons beyond that.

I understand you may want it to fall to the UN, but to the extent that it does it is merely a courtesy.

If someone wants to launch satellites with a radio violating every ITU regulation there is, unless someone is going to knock on their door with a gun, it doesn't mean squat. The buck stops at your nation's capital - if they're okay with what you're doing, you can do it. Everything else is just diplomatic window dressing and doesn't really mean anything at the end of the day.

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