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“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

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Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#331

Post by incone123 »

chii wrote: post #258
brendanjbond wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already filter out drivers that don't take tips (so, filter to zero) by just not placing the order.

But that filter is at best inaccurate then isnt it? Surely there exists a driver which would accept a tipless delivery, but you cannot find them because all you can do is decline to do business. Americans need to remove the idea of tipping. It's archaic, because it was originally there for an aristocratic/wealthy patron to show off their status to the lowly servants of an establishment. Just charge a price, and have…

If you enter zero tip then you will find drivers who accept that because the rest won't accept.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#332

Post by vultour »

gmadsen wrote: post #324
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

It is a mechanism to move labor costs to the consumer. On some delivery apps , the driver can decide which jobs to take based on the pre-service tip. So the companies have effectively put the responsibility to pay driver's base wage on the users themselves, while the company still takes a huge corporate cut

I suggested we do this at work. We’ll add a tip field to our Jira tickets and whoever’s ticket is worth the most gets priority. Oh you submitted a production incident a week ago? Sorry, there’s not even $5 on it, we filter those out.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#333

Post by CalRobert »

rambambram wrote: post #281
CalRobert wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent half my adult life in Ireland, had kids there, built a house there, etc and like to think that during said time I learned a few things and noticed changes. I do think part of it related to POS systems normalizing it. But it is certainly possible that our experiences differed. It was more common in Dublin 2 than in Offaly I'd say... Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about…

Very off-topic: but the RSS icon on your website still(?) points to feedly and doesn't give your latest blogpost but some feedly crap.

Thanks, I should take it down, really…

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#334

Post by gmadsen »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #330
gmadsen wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a mechanism to move labor costs to the consumer. On some delivery apps , the driver can decide which jobs to take based on the pre-service tip. So the companies have effectively put the responsibility to pay driver's base wage on the users themselves, while the company still takes a huge corporate cut

> It is a mechanism to move labor costs to the consumer. How does this work? The corp already handles some form of payment to the worker, especially when you tip as part of a card payment. And in both cases, the consumer foots the bill. How's it different from paying the worker more and asking for more money upfront?

psychologically they are very different. Framing the wages as a "tip" moves the conversation to the drivers and users, where users think tips are an out of hand culture problem and drivers view the users as stingy. Then the company sits out of the spotlight collecting their absurd rents

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#335

Post by vladvasiliu »

liotier wrote: post #287
froddd wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Sad if this is no longer the case. In the UK at least (and the rest of Europe too, as far as I can tell), this is still very much the case. The curve varies with the individuals tipping. I would be quite happy to give 20% if the service was outstanding. I’m equally happy to not tip at all if the service was very poor.

France here - no tip is the norm, tip is for service above & beyond... But, contrary to the USA, everyone gets a proper living wage !

Depends on when you are. Making minimum wage while living in Paris isn't exactly a "proper living wage".

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#336

Post by incone123 »

johnisgood wrote: post #209
gambiting wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>What gave you the idea that I was referring to Poland? I didn't have that idea, I'm just saying that in Poland I've never had any issues tipping with card and since you said "eastern europe" I wondered if you consider Poland eastern europe. That's all.

Well, people consider Hungary to be in Eastern Europe, but it actually is in Central Europe, and so is Poland. I use "Eastern Europe" when I am referring to Hungary only because people typically think that Hungary is in Eastern Europe. Perhaps I should stop doing that and just use "Central Europe", since it is them who are incorrectly believing it is in Eastern Europe.

I think some people go on natural geography and others on 'east of the iron curtain'.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#337

Post by jppope »

efitz wrote: post #73
oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

There’s very little empirical evidence correlating tipping with better service.

Anyone who has worked in a restaurant or bar can provide plenty of observational data that if you provide better service you will be tipped better. I would recommend trying out working as a server/bartender you will understand tipping a lot better.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#338

Post by Mudbugs »

bapak wrote: post #74
oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

The crazier part is that it's spreading to more industries and more countries thanks to Americans thinking they should tip everyone everywhere. Thanks.

Because they know they can get away with it.

It is also not "tip" anymore, it is just "whatever pays the most" gets the service. It is just to maximise profit out of suckers, something US have perfected (from insurance to fast passes).

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#339

Post by kingstnap »

gmadsen wrote: post #324
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

It is a mechanism to move labor costs to the consumer. On some delivery apps , the driver can decide which jobs to take based on the pre-service tip. So the companies have effectively put the responsibility to pay driver's base wage on the users themselves, while the company still takes a huge corporate cut

On delivery apps it should be called a "bid" and I think honestly it would be more ethical than the shady nonsense they do now if they went all in on that.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#340

Post by walterbell »

nemomarx wrote: post #312
walterbell wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Are there customers giving tips for other reasons? Any examples?

On a gig delivery app, you give a tip so that someone will be happy to deliver it and not mess up your food, I think. a 0% tip is risking stuff. You can't really say it's a reward for the service though, more of a payment to secure better service? Lots of places will now ask for tips before the food comes out even in person now - lunch sandwich shops, etc. I don't think they'd be unprofessional enough to mess up your…

On some delivery apps, tips can be increased after service delivery, e.g. baseline at time of order, bonus after good service.

> 0% tip is risking stuff

There are more numbers between zero and good! Markets depend on information. Price has been information for centuries.

The insurance industry has actuarial lessons for managing risk. The delivery app industry has a range of policy measures for managing delivery performance, including but not limited to refunds and blacklisting workers from serving specific clients.

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