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“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

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Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#321

Post by nobleach »

liotier wrote: post #287
froddd wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Sad if this is no longer the case. In the UK at least (and the rest of Europe too, as far as I can tell), this is still very much the case. The curve varies with the individuals tipping. I would be quite happy to give 20% if the service was outstanding. I’m equally happy to not tip at all if the service was very poor.

France here - no tip is the norm, tip is for service above & beyond... But, contrary to the USA, everyone gets a proper living wage !

In France, I always thought it was customary to leave the change from l'addition. (I'm not French though, so perhaps I was commiting a faux pas)

I can confirm in Italy almost no one will even accept a tip. (Taxi drivers, wait-staff, hotel staff)

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#322

Post by deadbabe »

I’ve finally eliminated all tipping in my life for anything that isn’t sit down restaurant service or an uber ride, and I’ve stopped using delivery apps to instead just pick up food myself.

At first it feels shitty hitting 0 or “no tip” on a payment machine but after the first several times it feels empowering and I doubt employees give a shit anyway. Just do it.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#323

Post by jasode »

taneq wrote: post #313
cons0le wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of times, that makes the order come slower. A higher tip means the app will pair your order with someone else that didn't tip or tipped smaller, using your money to make up the difference. I consistently get faster deliveries when I tip towards "the average" instead of over tipping

Why would you keep using an app that you suspect was cynically exploiting your generosity like that? I’d drive every time rather than encourage such behaviour.

>Why would you keep using an app that you suspect was cynically exploiting your generosity like that? I’d drive every time rather than encourage such behaviour.

Surely you already know that choosing things doesn't always simplify down to a single dimension. Instead, there are multiple factors that lead people to deliberately choose options that have negatives.

E.g. Why do people continue to use Ryanair airlines if they always nickel & dime customers and treat them like shit?!? Because the mistreatment by Ryanair is still better than driving for 6 hours or paying more $$$ for Air France or KLM.

Likewise, why do customers continue playing along with the tips/bribery/ransom game in the delivery app?!? Because the user-hostile app is still better than rounding up the small toddlers and infant into the car, fasten the car seat, and drive to the restaurant.

Life doesn't always provide unambiguous good options. Instead, you choose the "least bad" from the list of bad options.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#324

Post by gmadsen »

voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

It is a mechanism to move labor costs to the consumer. On some delivery apps , the driver can decide which jobs to take based on the pre-service tip. So the companies have effectively put the responsibility to pay driver's base wage on the users themselves, while the company still takes a huge corporate cut

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#325

Post by eloisant »

nemomarx wrote: post #312
walterbell wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Are there customers giving tips for other reasons? Any examples?

On a gig delivery app, you give a tip so that someone will be happy to deliver it and not mess up your food, I think. a 0% tip is risking stuff. You can't really say it's a reward for the service though, more of a payment to secure better service? Lots of places will now ask for tips before the food comes out even in person now - lunch sandwich shops, etc. I don't think they'd be unprofessional enough to mess up your…

I don't think they know you tipped until the delivery is complete, to avoid that precisely.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#326

Post by LeafItAlone »

logifail wrote: post #273
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service". What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

>Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"?

As in any tip at all? No, from me. I don’t think I’ve never _not_ tipped when the situation expects it (sit down restaurant being served). I know the person there is being paid less than minimum wage (where I live), which is already too low in my opinion, so they get something.

The amount of the tip certainly is highly dependent on level of service. That could be a significant difference at the end. I’ve tipped over 100% when the staff has done someone that stood out to me.

(Having been a server in the past and now in tech, I feel guilty about the work-level/salary imbalance, so I am generally generous with my tips.)

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#328

Post by [deleted] »

voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

[deleted]

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#329

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

squigz wrote: post #261
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a country with near zero tipping culture. For the most part I find the food gets to my table at some point but I'm rarely particularly happy with customer service. It's sometimes an awkward negotiation to get their attention or to ask something. The opposite was true in my time living in the US - soft skills, fast response, engagement are standard. And I've been on both sides of that in food service. Now, t…

> There are also times I find that exchanging money is more honest. I want you to serve me, I'm paying you, I don't have to keep at the back of my mind a question whether I'm asking something beyond what your boss expects/pays you. I like that about the US - it's brutal but that's reality. But isn't this describing tipping? You're having to ask yourself, "Is this service good enough for a tip? How much of a tip?" ins…

It is and that's why my point is that there is nuance here.

I had more fun and more satisfaction working in food service in the US than in the EU. There was also more real opportunity right there on the spot to do the thing and get more.

Like yeah, you're having to ask yourself and that's friction. But shouldn't there be a friction when you're being served by someone who is an equal? I've seen folks treat service like garbage in the EU because that exchange obscures the fact that there is an exchange of money. And I've seen service fall back on apathy.

But this is just one way to look at it - ideally it should be exactly as you describe - good service, simple exchange at specified price and confidence that the service is adequately paid for the job.

Only issue is that even in the EU this is often not the truth and restaurants would never ever afford to actually hire full-time employment contracts.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#330

Post by vladvasiliu »

gmadsen wrote: post #324
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

It is a mechanism to move labor costs to the consumer. On some delivery apps , the driver can decide which jobs to take based on the pre-service tip. So the companies have effectively put the responsibility to pay driver's base wage on the users themselves, while the company still takes a huge corporate cut

> It is a mechanism to move labor costs to the consumer.

How does this work? The corp already handles some form of payment to the worker, especially when you tip as part of a card payment. And in both cases, the consumer foots the bill.

How's it different from paying the worker more and asking for more money upfront?

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