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“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

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Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#301

Post by voidUpdate »

logifail wrote: post #273
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service". What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

I live in the UK, and I personally have never given a tip, I don't think I've even seen it as an option other than physically giving the other person some cash, but AFAIK its generally seen as something you do if the service was excellent, but as I say I've never done it myself. I'm not generally in situations where it could be warranted, like I don't really eat out much or anything like that

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#302

Post by walterbell »

logifail wrote: post #273
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service". What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"?

Are there customers giving tips for other reasons? Any examples?

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#304

Post by [deleted] »

frollogaston wrote: post #82
Workaccount2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point you are litterally a sucker to pay for anything in cash, because everything is marked-up to cover CC fees, which you get a portion of back in the form of rewards. Yes, I know some places give cash discounts. Most do not.

Not everything is marked up to cover CC fees, and any time there's a CC surcharge, it's more than the points you get. That and the tip is separate.

[deleted]

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#305

Post by joebe89 »

voidUpdate wrote: post #301
logifail wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service". What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

I live in the UK, and I personally have never given a tip, I don't think I've even seen it as an option other than physically giving the other person some cash, but AFAIK its generally seen as something you do if the service was excellent, but as I say I've never done it myself. I'm not generally in situations where it could be warranted, like I don't really eat out much or anything like that

As someone who also lives in the UK this surprises me. Almost every restaurant I eat at now takes the liberty of adding a 10% service charge onto every bill. I assume the idea of which is to make it awkward/embarrassing for you to request to have it taken off.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#306

Post by retsibsi »

ecb_penguin wrote: post #85
frollogaston wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're definitely more attentive for the tip, I just don't like it. If they're going to be extra nice, I don't want it to be for money. Felt nice going to other countries like Australia where the customer isn't always right but they still do their jobs.

Bud, literally nobody gives a shit about waiting on you. They are literally only doing it for the money. People in Australia are still doing it for the money, even if you don't realize it.

They're doing the job for the money. They're relating to the customer both as part of their job, and as an actual human interaction. (Obviously the extent to which this is true varies a lot depending on the individuals involved and the context.) Believe it or not, sometimes people are genuinely friendly, even at work, and even when they're not receiving any extra compensation for going beyond the required level of politeness. Those interactions are, IMO, worth more than forced "friendliness" from someone who is simply looking to get as much money as they can out of me.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#307

Post by walterbell »

NullifyNAN wrote: post #227
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

You’re not paying for a service, you’re bidding in an open market. They don’t tell you this but it’s the reality. Drivers can tell if you don’t tip and all of the experienced ones will decline your order. Though these apps have done a lot of work to conceal the amount the driver actually gets until delivery is completed.

> bidding in an open market.. they don't tell you... apps done a lot of work to conceal

Markets have prices.

Open markets have transparent pricing for efficient discovery.

Concealed prices in deniable auctions are closer to dark pools than open markets.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#308

Post by kalaksi »

kelnos wrote: post #196
bilekas wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind tipping for exceptional service, I do however have a major issue with the obligation of tipping. It really should not be on the customers to pay the employees salaries directly.

I don't think we should be tipping at all, even for exceptional service. The job is the job, and the employer should be paying the full amount that job is worth. If the employee is doing it exceptionally well, going above and beyond, the employer should reward them with a raise, same as for salaried positions. That's assuming the employer values that above-and-beyond-ness, of course. If not, they won't give that rais…

Yes, I have also been thinking how a similar reward system would work without tipping. Just use a bonus system based on customer feedback. And the flow could be very similar to how it is with tipping.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#309

Post by voidUpdate »

joebe89 wrote: post #305
voidUpdate wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the UK, and I personally have never given a tip, I don't think I've even seen it as an option other than physically giving the other person some cash, but AFAIK its generally seen as something you do if the service was excellent, but as I say I've never done it myself. I'm not generally in situations where it could be warranted, like I don't really eat out much or anything like that

As someone who also lives in the UK this surprises me. Almost every restaurant I eat at now takes the liberty of adding a 10% service charge onto every bill. I assume the idea of which is to make it awkward/embarrassing for you to request to have it taken off.

I may have had this happen without realising, but in my head, a tip is something you choose to add on extra, whether for good service or because the workers aren't getting paid properly. If I get a service charge, that's more like just part of the bill that I would pay, though I've only really noticed it as part of online stuff, for example my bank has a £25 service change to send money overseas (for some reason, I can't imagine that the process isn't fully automatic by now)

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#310

Post by taneq »

technothrasher wrote: post #265
xiphias2 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a way for them to prioritize your order before others as they see how much money they earn, so actually it's a bidding process disguised as tipping. I'm not sure if it's shown in the backend though, but I have seen things like this in other delivery apps.

Why would they prioritize you when you've already paid? Wouldn't they first go after the possibility of more tip money on jobs that haven't yet paid it? I mean, if I was a driver, unless there are more high tip jobs than I could handle, I'd take those and fill in with low tip jobs, and I'd deliver the low tip jobs first in a hope of getting an after the fact tip.

Ooh that’s actually a really interesting question. Because you’ve retroactively signaled that you will pay more for priority service? Or that you’re dumb. Needs to be iterated. Incentives depend strongly on population of both drivers and customers.
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