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“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

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Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#261

Post by squigz »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #216
kelnos wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we should be tipping at all, even for exceptional service. The job is the job, and the employer should be paying the full amount that job is worth. If the employee is doing it exceptionally well, going above and beyond, the employer should reward them with a raise, same as for salaried positions. That's assuming the employer values that above-and-beyond-ness, of course. If not, they won't give that rais…

I live in a country with near zero tipping culture. For the most part I find the food gets to my table at some point but I'm rarely particularly happy with customer service. It's sometimes an awkward negotiation to get their attention or to ask something. The opposite was true in my time living in the US - soft skills, fast response, engagement are standard. And I've been on both sides of that in food service. Now, t…

> There are also times I find that exchanging money is more honest. I want you to serve me, I'm paying you, I don't have to keep at the back of my mind a question whether I'm asking something beyond what your boss expects/pays you. I like that about the US - it's brutal but that's reality.

But isn't this describing tipping? You're having to ask yourself, "Is this service good enough for a tip? How much of a tip?" instead of just exchanging money for the service and that's it.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#262

Post by ourmandave »

oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

The Taco Johns near where I work has a tip jar outside the drive-thru window.

I don't know of any other fast food place that does that.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#263

Post by wat10000 »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #254
wat10000 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t matter, money is fungible.

My money is not fungible with my employer's money. Money being fungible does not mean I get to use your money.

It means that you paying taxes on your pay is equivalent to your employer paying taxes on your pay. If you shift taxes to the employer, then they will reduce your pay accordingly.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#264

Post by tombert »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #118
bapak wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazier part is that it's spreading to more industries and more countries thanks to Americans thinking they should tip everyone everywhere. Thanks.

No, it's spreading because corporations are waking up to what an insanely good deal "pay my employees for me" is. In my state an employer is only responsible for raising an employee's effective wage (for the entire pay period) to minimum wage if the tips don't. You can tip someone working as a waiter $100 and unless they've already hit minimum wage for that pay period, all you're doing is handing $100 to the owner be…

In a sense this policy has kind of saved me money, because I have simply been avoiding restaurants that expect me to tip and cook at home more often.

I hate pretty much everything about tipping. The onus shouldn’t be on some fucking customer to determine if a server makes rent this month.

I really hate that pretty much every payment terminal asks for a tip now.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#265

Post by technothrasher »

xiphias2 wrote: post #201
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

It might be a way for them to prioritize your order before others as they see how much money they earn, so actually it's a bidding process disguised as tipping. I'm not sure if it's shown in the backend though, but I have seen things like this in other delivery apps.

Why would they prioritize you when you've already paid? Wouldn't they first go after the possibility of more tip money on jobs that haven't yet paid it? I mean, if I was a driver, unless there are more high tip jobs than I could handle, I'd take those and fill in with low tip jobs, and I'd deliver the low tip jobs first in a hope of getting an after the fact tip.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#266

Post by nozzlegear »

ourmandave wrote: post #262
oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

The Taco Johns near where I work has a tip jar outside the drive-thru window. I don't know of any other fast food place that does that.

In my experience as a former enjoyer, Taco John's needs all the help they can get =P

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#267

Post by cons0le »

xiphias2 wrote: post #201
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

It might be a way for them to prioritize your order before others as they see how much money they earn, so actually it's a bidding process disguised as tipping. I'm not sure if it's shown in the backend though, but I have seen things like this in other delivery apps.

A lot of times, that makes the order come slower. A higher tip means the app will pair your order with someone else that didn't tip or tipped smaller, using your money to make up the difference. I consistently get faster deliveries when I tip towards "the average" instead of over tipping

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#268

Post by squigz »

kelnos wrote: post #228
9rx wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tips subsidize profits, plain and simple. Nah. Profitability for the business would be higher without tips. I take x% of gross income as profit. No tips means I can charge the customer more, which means a higher gross income, which means more profit. When tipping is involved, the money slips through without allowing the business to take its cut. Good for the server, but not good for the business. However, as theore…

It's not that simple. Restaurant owners don't pay payroll taxes on tips, but they do pay it on regular wages. Raising restaurant menu prices by 20% (or the average tip amount) will not result in 20% (or the average tip amount) more going to the workers. Some restaurants have tried this out, and it's backfired. Restaurants already run on very thin margins; a loss of a few percent can kill them. Also consider that cust…

> Also consider that customers will get sticker shock: even though they are ultimately paying the same price, seeing 20% higher prices on the menu will make them spend less. Yes, it's dumb, but human psychology is dumb, so there we are.

It's not dumb; it's just that paying that 20% to the waiter is a lot easier to stomach than a 20% increase to the restaurant owner.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#269

Post by tombert »

efitz wrote: post #73
oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

There’s very little empirical evidence correlating tipping with better service.

Anecdata, but I go to Taco Bell way more often than I should. There’s no tipping culture at Taco Bell, but the staff, at least at the one near my house, are always very nice to me and as far as I can tell my food is made with a sufficient amount of care.

When I do go to a restaurant that has tipping, people are usually nice to me as well, but I don’t feel like they’re really any nicer or better at their job than my local Taco Bell workers.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#270

Post by lithos »

rhplus wrote: post #245
NullifyNAN wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not paying for a service, you’re bidding in an open market. They don’t tell you this but it’s the reality. Drivers can tell if you don’t tip and all of the experienced ones will decline your order. Though these apps have done a lot of work to conceal the amount the driver actually gets until delivery is completed.

Surely most customers would benefit from knowing that they’re bidding for service? Don’t call it a tip, but a bid or priority fee.

You already are able to pay more for 5-20 minutes of "priority".
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