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“No tax on tips” is an industry plant

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Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#231

Post by kelnos »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #116
bigyabai wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have specified that I live in the east-coast United States. Tap-to-pay is almost as common as someone writing you a paper check or an IOU, out here.

Contactless is basically non existent in America? I know America has always been backwards (cheques were still in use well into the 21st century, card pins didn’t seem to catch on before contactless became a thing about a decade ago), but I thought contactless was quite high nowadays, especiallly with phones and watches. Certainly I’ve had no problem paying contactless in the cities I’ve been to recently - New York,…

Contactless is pervasive when there's counter service, but most POS systems in the US are still at a fixed staff station, and not one of the portable readers that the waiter can bring to the table. It's super weird, I agree (I was just in Guatemala, for example, and every restaurant had a portable reader they'd bring to the table), but I would imagine replacing POS systems again -- remember, we got chip card readers later than a lot of the rest of the world -- is annoying.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#232

Post by ajsnigrutin »

I never understood tips...

You have a farmer that grows/raises food, butchers and others that 'process' it, you have a team of cooks who prepare/cook the food, and you're supposed to tip the the person who just brings the foor from the kitchen to your table, maybe 20, 30 meters away?!

Sadly, tipping is sprading all over europe too with POS terminals bothering you more and more often for tips.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#233

Post by kelnos »

frollogaston wrote: post #82
Workaccount2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point you are litterally a sucker to pay for anything in cash, because everything is marked-up to cover CC fees, which you get a portion of back in the form of rewards. Yes, I know some places give cash discounts. Most do not.

Not everything is marked up to cover CC fees, and any time there's a CC surcharge, it's more than the points you get. That and the tip is separate.

As the GP said, most places do not give a cash discount (the equivalent of a CC surcharge), though that practice is indeed a bit more common than it was a decade ago. Interestingly, I've see this practice in odd places like my utility and phone bills (they don't charge an extra fee if you instead link your bank account or use a debit card, which I don't love, but... here we are).

And even if things aren't marked up to cover CC fees, if you have a rewards card, you're effectively paying more if you pay in cash.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#234

Post by okr »

NullifyNAN wrote: post #227
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

You’re not paying for a service, you’re bidding in an open market. They don’t tell you this but it’s the reality. Drivers can tell if you don’t tip and all of the experienced ones will decline your order. Though these apps have done a lot of work to conceal the amount the driver actually gets until delivery is completed.

Hm. If it is an open market, the consumer should also be able to decline/filter drivers, that take tips. Maybe it is a market, but sadly not open.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#235

Post by kelnos »

lelandfe wrote: post #14
garciasn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an honest question: what's the cash vs card tip ratio? 99.999% of the time I am not carrying cash and I don't see many (any?) people paying with cash ANYWHERE in the last 10+ years.

NYC here, whole lot of cash still showing up in tip jars - there are still and loads of cash-only places around, from bars, restaurants, to street carts, you name it. JG Melon, for instance, is famously cash only. But so too is the bar around the corner from my apartment (Dynaco, do recommend). ...So people often tend to be carrying cash still.

Sure, but more places take card, and fewer people carry as much cash. Or rather, people carry less cash.

The fact that a business "famously" is cash only seems to support this, as that implies that it's becoming more unusual.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#236

Post by kawsper »

NullifyNAN wrote: post #227
voidUpdate wrote: post #165

What confuses me most is when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given. On deliveroo, for example, I have the option to tip the driver while I'm at the checkout. Why would I give a reward for good service when I have no idea if the service is even good? There's already a rider fee as part of my bill, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give them more money at that point

You’re not paying for a service, you’re bidding in an open market. They don’t tell you this but it’s the reality. Drivers can tell if you don’t tip and all of the experienced ones will decline your order. Though these apps have done a lot of work to conceal the amount the driver actually gets until delivery is completed.

With Wolt the rider can’t see tips until after delivery.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#237

Post by kelnos »

evo_9 wrote: post #69

According to my accountant for my wife’s small business (nail and wax salon) this tax law change will have a significant positive impact on her staff. Not sure what to make of this article, it seems pretty disingenuous.

N=1. Just because your wife's business doesn't fall under the conditions that the article is talking about, it doesn't mean that her business is the norm.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#239

Post by bobwell »

For example, Amazon caught lowering delivery driver pay with the tips making up the difference and then lying about it: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/amazon_flex...

> At the outset of the Amazon Flex program, from 2015 through late 2016, Amazon paid drivers at least $18 per hour plus 100% of customer tips

> Beginning in late 2016 ... Amazon secretly reduced its own contribution to drivers’ pay to an algorithmically set, internal “base rate” using data it collected about average tips in the area ...

> For example, for a one-hour block offering $18-$25, if Amazon’s base rate in the particular location was $12, and the customer left a $6 tip for the driver, then Amazon paid the driver only $12 and used the full customer tip of $6 to reach its minimum payment of $18 to the driver.

And their punishment was just to pay back what had been taken: I can't imagine there are many other opportunities to steal $61m with the only punishment when you're caught is having to pay it back.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#240

Post by rkomorn »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #232

I never understood tips... You have a farmer that grows/raises food, butchers and others that 'process' it, you have a team of cooks who prepare/cook the food, and you're supposed to tip the the person who just brings the foor from the kitchen to your table, maybe 20, 30 meters away?! Sadly, tipping is sprading all over europe too with POS terminals bothering you more and more often for tips.

I grew up in France and tipping in restaurants was definitely a thing, albeit on an entirely different scale than in the US.

Leaving a few francs (I'm not young) was common practice.

With cash payments growing more rare, and without the ability to tip easily with cards, maybe it became much less common.

That said, I don't disagree with your comment on how it's spreading. What I don't love about the terminals asking for tips is that, IMO, it creates an expectation of tipping that wasn't there before.

Now, in Portugal, we're starting to see cases of "here's the price with a 3€ tip (for example), if you want to pay that", and you awkwardly get to say "no thanks I want to pay the actual price", which I find very unpleasant.

On the other hand, we regularly eat out at a place near us that only takes cash. We usually spend about 18€ and I always leave the extra 2€ as a tip.

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