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Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

dewesoft.com

41–50 of 118 posts

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#41

It's incredible how many satellites Space X have launched It's also surprising from a layman's perspective the "freedom" to launch rockets into space without necessarily needing permission, the originating country of course needs to approve it but none else

It's really not all that surprising that space is treated like the oceans. There certainly are rules and norms of behavior, but you don't need to ask for permission to enter it.

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#42

It's incredible how many satellites Space X have launched It's also surprising from a layman's perspective the "freedom" to launch rockets into space without necessarily needing permission, the originating country of course needs to approve it but none else

That's... good? In more ways than one.

The most obvious is that any international body would be easily controlled by the big players, so you'd end up with more centralized control by the same national entities, but now they'd be controlling other countries launches as well.

The other problem is that lately international organizations have a pretty bad track record. Two examples, which I've chosen because they are actually both very important incidents and also squarely in the domain of the respective orgs: WHO with Covid with a mostly useless and visibly politicized reaction; and UN with Gaza, with a large block of Arab voters who are basically stuck at condemning Israel, but systematically refuse to actually step up and help with the problem. Both incidents are literally what those orgs were created to handle, and yet they don't.

Also space launches have a military component, not always public. I doubt many would agree to let an international body poke their nose in that.

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#43
post #32

It's incredible how many satellites Space X have launched It's also surprising from a layman's perspective the "freedom" to launch rockets into space without necessarily needing permission, the originating country of course needs to approve it but none else

Yeah, it's kind of mind-blowing how much the space game has shifted from international diplomacy to private enterprise with a launch schedule

I agree. I wonder if handing things over to private companies is a way for governments to avoid red tape and shift accountability if something goes wrong.

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#44
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really isn't all that much if you pause to consider it. For example. Lets take the larger possible number of 7500 plus 2,300 plus the 4,550 satellites noted up to 2021. That's a total of just under 15,000 satellites. Most of those are fairly small objects, at the most about the size of a typical mini-van, with most being quite a bit smaller than that. Now, all of this is spread over a three-dimensional topograph…

But apart from all the other stuff you mention, you’re missing an important point: these things move. And unless all objects are synchronized (which they are not) they occupy a whole orbit, not only their actual volume. If two orbits intersect, the objects occupying those will eventually collide. Therefore, they occupy much more volume.

Yes. This is the idea behind Kessler Syndrome - that the accumulation of clutter in Earth orbit could lead to an "ablation cascade" as more and more things collide and more and more debris is created from those collisions leading to Earth orbit becoming too hazardous to traverse.

"A 1 kg object impacting at 10 km/s, for example, is probably capable of catastrophically breaking up a 1,000 kg spacecraft if it strikes a high-density element in the spacecraft. In such a breakup, numerous fragments larger than 1 kg would be created." https://orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov/library/a-technical-asses...

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#45

It's incredible how many satellites Space X have launched It's also surprising from a layman's perspective the "freedom" to launch rockets into space without necessarily needing permission, the originating country of course needs to approve it but none else

That's... good? In more ways than one. The most obvious is that any international body would be easily controlled by the big players, so you'd end up with more centralized control by the same national entities, but now they'd be controlling other countries launches as well. The other problem is that lately international organizations have a pretty bad track record. Two examples, which I've chosen because they are act…

Somebody has never heard of the tragedy of the commons. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

> The tragedy of the commons is the concept that, if many people enjoy unfettered access to a finite, valuable resource, such as a pasture, they will tend to overuse it and may end up destroying its value altogether. Even if some users exercised voluntary restraint, the other users would merely replace them, the predictable result being a "tragedy" for all.

There is no right of absolute freedom, because at some point that freedom affects other people who also have rights. So we're always limited explicitly and implicitly in what we can do. Free, unfettered access just means taking something away from somebody else.

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#46
Is there something like https://www.flightradar24.com for satellites?

Would be kind of interesting to build a “live” visualization of objects in earths orbit. But this would require accurate live data of those objects. Probably nothing that companies would publish.

On the other hand side: once the object and its orbit is identified, positions could be calculated…

Does anyone know more?

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only countries even capable of enforcing launch bans stand to gain nothing from them because it just makes launching their own payloads more difficult. There's like ~10 or so countries who are readily launch capable and even less with the military capability to put any pressure to stop foreign launches. Who's going to regulate? Regulation only works when someone has the power to enforce them. Right now the people…

International cooperation can still work even though there is very rarely a realistic prospect of enforcement. No one is going to war to enforce WTO rulings or nuclear non-proliferation treaties, for example. It's true that when things get really hairy international law tends to fall by the wayside, eg countries leaving the Land Mine Ban Treaty now that it seems possible they may actually have to deal with a foreign…

A country was last bombed in an attempt to enforce the NPT less than two months ago.

And of the conditions you listed, you missed the big one. The big, powerful countries must directly benefit, they have never signed up to a treaty where they don't.

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#48
post #46

Is there something like https://www.flightradar24.com for satellites? Would be kind of interesting to build a “live” visualization of objects in earths orbit. But this would require accurate live data of those objects. Probably nothing that companies would publish. On the other hand side: once the object and its orbit is identified, positions could be calculated… Does anyone know more?

https://satellitemap.space/

Re: Every satellite orbiting earth and who owns them (2023)

#50
post #46

Is there something like https://www.flightradar24.com for satellites? Would be kind of interesting to build a “live” visualization of objects in earths orbit. But this would require accurate live data of those objects. Probably nothing that companies would publish. On the other hand side: once the object and its orbit is identified, positions could be calculated… Does anyone know more?

Another interesting site already featured on Hacker News.

https://james.darpinian.com/satellites/

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