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Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

denverite.com

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Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#281

Post by Manuel_D »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #165
s17n wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there people who have been avoiding Denver because the rent is too high? I think of Denver as somewhere you go if you're sick of the cost of living on the coast.

> I think of Denver as somewhere you go if you're sick of the cost of living on the coast. Denver hasn't been that place for more than a few decades. Heck, the whole rocky mountain region has never ever been a place for cheap housing. Western housing prices are high historically for reasons related to desirability. They never were as cheap as the midwest or deep south.

Median price per sq ft in Denver is $377 according to Google. That's still on the order of half the cost in Seattle of SF.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#282

Post by bee_rider »

Ballas wrote: post #280
bee_rider wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, the convention in the US is that people see their houses as a form of savings. Realistically, we should account for that. Also, if continuing the building ends up requiring some policy change (supported by changing laws and regulations)… it seems reasonable to protect normal people, doing normal things, from massive financial chaos that is explicitly caused by the government changing policies on them. At least f…

> But, the convention in the US is that people see their houses as a form of savings. And that is a big part of the problem. You cannot have it both ways, if housing is an investment, it will eventually lead to poorer outcomes for anybody that needs a house and does not inherit one.

I agree. I didn’t argue for not-building in order to keep prices high.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#283

Post by _carbyau_ »

cocaclub wrote: post #236
_carbyau_ wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the rat race. You are competing with all the other humans around you in the same playspace of reality. A mortgage is a loan that gives you money you don't have (yet). If you are spending money you don't have, do it wisely or suffer the consequences. I think no special treatment. Everyone else in the same space has the same rules/uncertainty as every argument you offered.

These are my feelings too, but in the interests of compassion, I would suggest a return of some proportion of equity to (human, non-LLC, non-corporate, primary resident) buyers in cash, up to bank failure. Hopefully they can then buy another house at the presumably much lower prevailing market rate. Someone has to lose, let it be in order of "he who should have known what he was doing in making this catastrophe possi…

I mean, there are a few things here. Like if the bank want the house sold on the loan because the house value goes down even though the person with the loan is willing to continue servicing it - then that seems like an own goal for the bank.

There are a variety of circumstances that can be dreamt up for either side of the equation. And I have no compassion for lenders either.

As you say, maybe the mortgage/loan should be seen as a partnership of some degree between the parties so that the lender is less likely to take advantage.

But ultimately "he who should have known" is the person asking for money to buy XYZ thing. A person should be responsible for their actions.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#284

Post by dgfitz »

petesergeant wrote: post #221
standardUser wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater If you buy a house for $400k, and suddenly it is worth $300k, you don't need to be "bailed out" for your purchase decision. You should have been certain that the house was worth $400k to you at the time of purchase. Otherwise you're a speculator, and we shouldn't be bailing out speculators. It's called buyer's remorse. We accept…

> If you buy a house for $400k, and suddenly it is worth $300k, you don't need to be "bailed out" for your purchase decision. You should have been certain that the house was worth $400k to you at the time of purchase. I think it's pretty normal for rational purchasers to consider the resale value of something that they purchase, and hand-waving that away doesn't make for a very serious argument.

Very rarely does the value of a purchase increase over time. Literally the only examples I can come up with are things that are very old and rare, or a house.

Viewing a home as some kind of investment vehicle is everything wrong with the housing market today. It’s so wrong it makes my head spin.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#285

Post by dgfitz »

14 wrote: post #192
standardUser wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater If you buy a house for $400k, and suddenly it is worth $300k, you don't need to be "bailed out" for your purchase decision. You should have been certain that the house was worth $400k to you at the time of purchase. Otherwise you're a speculator, and we shouldn't be bailing out speculators. It's called buyer's remorse. We accept…

While at the end of the day I don’t think people should be bailed out, I don’t agree that everyone who over paid is a speculator. Many people are just wanting to own their own home. The market has been crazy for the last 5 years. Many people are just buying to own not to flip it for a huge profit. So when a new home owner buys something and suddenly the value drops $100k and the bank wants the money I do feel slightl…

> So when a new home owner buys something and suddenly the value drops $100k and the bank wants the money I do feel slightly sorry for them.

I don’t understand this point. If you’re paying the mortgage, the bank dgaf. Is there some sort of margin call a bank can claim on a house that is worth less than it was when it was purchased?

Don’t you just pay the mortgage you agreed to pay the bank?

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#288

Post by vkou »

dmix wrote: post #228
msgodel wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah everyone involved in that should have been shot. That's part of what led to the situation we have today.

Short term thinking dominates economics these days. Managing the current downturn is most important, when people ask about longterm implications do a bunch of hand wavy stuff about it being temporary and then kick the can to the next guys who do the same thing.

> Short term thinking dominates economics these days.

Especially among people criticizing the response to 2008/2020.

Failing to mitigate sickness in capital markets and the economy in the short term would have inflicted far more damage in the long term.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#289

Post by jjav »

14 wrote: post #192
standardUser wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater If you buy a house for $400k, and suddenly it is worth $300k, you don't need to be "bailed out" for your purchase decision. You should have been certain that the house was worth $400k to you at the time of purchase. Otherwise you're a speculator, and we shouldn't be bailing out speculators. It's called buyer's remorse. We accept…

While at the end of the day I don’t think people should be bailed out, I don’t agree that everyone who over paid is a speculator. Many people are just wanting to own their own home. The market has been crazy for the last 5 years. Many people are just buying to own not to flip it for a huge profit. So when a new home owner buys something and suddenly the value drops $100k and the bank wants the money I do feel slightl…

> So when a new home owner buys something and suddenly the value drops $100k and the bank wants the money

That's not how mortgages work (in the US, anyway). If the value drops, nothing happens, you still have the same house and same mortgage.

I've been underwater twice, in the same house, as prices go up and down over the years. As long as you still like the house and want to continue living there (I did), being underwater doesn't mean anything.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#290

Post by jjav »

bombcar wrote: post #209
phkahler wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Smaller more affordable homes would be a better solution. Most people who rent cant afford to buy, but rent is a worse deal long term.

It’s actually quite hard to definitively quantify if renting or owning is better in a given area/scenario. Obviously the case near me where the mortgage payment on a house would be $2600/mo but the rent for the identical one next door is $2000 is going to swing heavily toward renting, but there’s more to it than just that. Maintenance is huge and real and people just seem to ignore it on the “own” side, but 5-10% of…

> 5-10% of the value of the house a year in maintenance isn’t unheard of

That's actually pretty much unheard-of (unless you specifically bought a very cheap fixer-upper with the intent of remodeling).

I've owned current house for over 25 years and I have not spent 10% of its value in maintenance even if I add up everything over the 25+ years! Let alone every year!

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