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So you're a manager now

scottkosman.com

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Re: So you're a manager now

#161

Post by 8n4vidtmkvmk »

steveBK123 wrote: post #114
joncrane wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often find, aside from exceptional cases, most of them actually have some part of the job they prefer & are good at, so modifying the task allocation can go a long way. While this works in the short/naive scenario, I feel like in most cases these low performers prefer the "gravy" work if you will. The type of work that almost everyone prefers and is good at. So you risk setting a bad precedent for perverse incent…

Really depends actually! In a sufficient sized team you may have boring/rote tasks that your high performers hate & neglect, but sometimes a comparatively lower performer will take on. In many cases it's the (sometimes perceived but not in practice) higher performers that want the harder exciting high profile tasks, but maybe don't want to do the less fun parts of those tasks. Basic data munging, documentation, testi…

Problem is I don't think we can really pick and choose tidbits like that. You want the person who wrote the code to be the same person that documents it.

Some parts of the job just suck and there's no easy out. I just tell myself this is why they're paying me.

Re: So you're a manager now

#162

Post by jamesfinlayson »

icedchai wrote: post #80
Aurornis wrote: post #3

Some good advice. It’s missing one of the most difficult topics: Performance Management. Most first-time managers have already read a lot of advice about being humble, delegating, celebrating your team’s wins, and the other feel good topics. If you want to write internet advice that gets upvoted and shared you almost have to avoid the difficult conversation topics and assume that the team is full of perfect people th…

Performance management is challenging and has been a problem with my previous managers. I point out that person X is not doing their job well, not reviewing PRs (stamping LGTM on everything after about 30 seconds), writing buggy code, writing zero tests, no updating existing tests, not responsive to communication, not receptive to feedback. "I'll talk to him." No change. Two months later, I have the same discussion.

Yep, I did this once and got thrown under the bus when person X left, citing my behaviour - apparently asking person X to follow coding standards, right tests, implement the feature as requested was not a reasonable thing to do.

Re: So you're a manager now

#163

Post by jamesfinlayson »

MrGilbert wrote: post #50
Aurornis wrote: post #3

Some good advice. It’s missing one of the most difficult topics: Performance Management. Most first-time managers have already read a lot of advice about being humble, delegating, celebrating your team’s wins, and the other feel good topics. If you want to write internet advice that gets upvoted and shared you almost have to avoid the difficult conversation topics and assume that the team is full of perfect people th…

Agile Coach / Scrum Master chiming in - I switched from an engineering position to this more people-centric role, and completely agree with you. What I find fascinating about this is how predictable people become once you know the different personalities and their nuances. It helps tremendously to also be interested in getting to know people. And yes, you will encounter people that are disruptive. Usually, and I can…

> how predictable people become once you know the different personalities and their nuances

I will never cease to be amazed at managers who don't do this. I've seen enough managers who pick fights with the wrong subordinates then have to scramble to replace key staff when they leave.

Re: So you're a manager now

#164

Post by jamesfinlayson »

whstl wrote: post #100
kortilla wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being an agile coach isn’t management

Off topic, but: It's interesting how everyone thinks they're "managers" in "agile" teams. Scrum Masters, Product Owners. I've even had Designers and QAs trying to make decisions on behalf of the team.

> QAs trying to make decisions on behalf of the team

Oof, hits close.

Suggestion from a QA to implement some feature that is hugely difficult to implement? Business agrees so developers now need to make it happen.

Re: So you're a manager now

#165

Post by jamesfinlayson »

Aurornis wrote: post #21
wiz21c wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, went down that road too. It's really emotionnally difficult/grinding. And I still don't have a clue: you have to find how each person behaves. Lots of talk, influence, repeating the same thing every day, etc. Unfortunately, I've never taken any pleasure in doing that, it was just difficult and exhausting to me...

> you have to find how each person behaves. Lots of talk, influence, repeating the same thing every day, etc. It doesn’t help that most of the management advice you find on the internet assumes that inside every employee is a happy, productive worker and their manager can unlock it with the right words. In the real world the range of employee types is very large. Some of them are just toxic and you’re not going to co…

> Knowing when and how to cut your losses is important for preserving the rest of the team.

Too right. Hire slow and fire fast was a saying that I saw recently.

Re: So you're a manager now

#166

Post by jamesfinlayson »

alkonaut wrote: post #144

> You were probably really good at your job. Now your job is to make sure other people can be good at theirs. Anyone else see the exact opposite, that out of N people that _could_ become managers, it’s the worst individual contributors that do? Mostly because they want it most. People who love being individual contributors are going to become good at it, and they’ll resist management tasks. I think this is great and…

Yep, that "because they want it most" is very dangerous.

Anecdotally, the two worst managers I've had were developers, but I've had three really good managers that were formally developers. Then the best manager I've had used to be a business analyst.

Re: So you're a manager now

#167

Post by kortilla »

azangru wrote: post #125
kortilla wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being an agile coach isn’t management

The author of the article writes: > You’re not the player, you’re the coach. Sometimes that means strategy and big-picture thinking. Sometimes it means shielding your team from dumb shit. Sometimes it means buying someone coffee and saying, “You’re not crazy. This is hard.” Guess what good agile coaches or scrum masters are expected to do :-)

Very little of that. Agile coaches don’t deal with under performers, promo packets, retention issues, etc.

Agile coaches are also not able to shield the team from dumb shit. They don’t have the power to make priority calls on what the team is doing.

Re: So you're a manager now

#168

Post by hcfman »

hcfman wrote: post #28
RickJWagner wrote: post #6

About 30 years ago I was in the early part of my career and was stunned to learn two of my favorite programmers were former managers. I couldn’t understand why they ‘took a step backward’ to return to programming. One of them explained “In management, they nip at you from the top, and they nip at you from the bottom”. Meaning that you had many more people with demands. A programmer usually has only one, maybe a few.…

"Later, I learned that many managers are paid less than senior programmers." Not in Europe.

And what's worse is that they push the design work to the bottom of the pay rung, saying "You guys know it better, you should do the design". And that's architechs and higher managers doing this.

Re: So you're a manager now

#169

Post by throwaway746262 »

Jemaclus wrote: post #142
throwaway746262 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like "making choices" and "making decisions" isn't really a full time job. Maybe just see what a group of seniorish people think? I don't sort of "hate managers" or anything. Just curious about why businesses always seem to think they have to have them.

I think you should ask yourself that last question again, and this time really think about it. Why /do/ all companies seem to have managers? (Tone clarification: I'm not approaching this in a condescending manner, but more of a "let's talk through this problem out loud and see where it gets us." So please don't take this as condescension.) One way to think about "obvious" solutions to problems, such as a "no manager"…

Yes, I take your point.

But if I said "I don't understand the point of brakes. Why do all cars get made with brakes?", then as well as making your point ("look, do you really think you know better than Stellantis!?") there's also a straightforward answer which is "cars need brakes so they can stop instead of killing people."

What's the "straightforward answer" case for the existence of managers? Your answer just suggests that such an answer does exist, without revealing what it is.

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