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Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

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Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#181

Post by graycat »

One, maybe not the only one, hands off, automatic, 100% "all-natural", do nothing solution to the "housing crisis": Hope the birth rate, i.e., on average the number of babies born per woman, stays significantly under 2.0 or even 2.1, maybe 2.2.

So, the population will shrink but with some maintenance (roof, painting of exterior siding, kitchen/bath, HVAC, windows/doors) mostly the housing supply won't.

The Internet may reduce the time and money commuting to work and/or the need to be in high density, expensive housing areas for a job.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#182

Post by tptacek »

FireBeyond wrote: post #178
tptacek wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors begin delivering clinical care in year 3 of med school. You're doing a sleight of hand with this "out of high school" thing; doctors are also educated "out of high school", the difference between the two roles is 1-2 years before clinical practice, and NPs tend to practice supervised for longer periods of time than doctors. And, obviously, NPs cover a smaller range of conditions than doctors.

No, I’m really not. You can do an accelerated RN program in 12 months - though 18 months is more common. Many colleges offer RN to BSN courses. Some of them can be 12 months (and some less reputable places offer nine months). Add in a one year graduate nursing degree with some electives and in some states you are now eligible to practice as an ARNP or CRNP. I’ve personally met several NPs who are 24 years old and are…

There's accelerated pre-med too! My point is: it's all "out of high school". High school has nothing to do with any of this, but you mean to attach that term to NPs, as if they were in home ec last week. No, that's not at all how it works.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#183

Post by dastbe »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #142
standardUser wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree there are political considerations, but we are talking about a scenario where the only damage done is that the buyer must continue to live in the home they purchased at the price they purchased it for, and where the recipient of government benefits is a household capable of purchasing a house, presumably at the height of the market. Is a tax dollar better spent placating grumpy homeowners who already have a p…

> we are talking about a scenario where the only damage done is that the buyer must continue to live in the home they purchased at the price they purchased it for In non-recourse states, you'd expect to see defaults as people leave the keys in the mail to reduce their housing costs by moving next door at the reduced price or rent. More broadly, people don't like seeing their wealth go down. > Is a tax dollar better s…

> In non-recourse states, you'd expect to see defaults as people leave the keys in the mail to reduce their housing costs by moving next door at the reduced price or rent. More broadly, people don't like seeing their wealth go down.

At the trade-off of never being able to get a mortgage again, unless that's the bailout these homeowners get. Almost everyone will either sit tight or rent/sell at a loss. That being said, you will lose out on the public and private support of everyone who bought a house since roughly 2020. It doesn't matter if you've got a 3% rate if you're not getting your down payment out of the house.

The plan that makes the most sense to me is to keep housing prices constant/barely increasing while letting 3% inflation and gradual lowering of interest rates do its thing. Eventually the houses won't seem that expensive and those who locked in at high rates and high prices have an offramp through refinancing.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#184

Post by Schnitz »

standardUser wrote: post #130
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you buy a house for $400k, and suddenly it is worth $300k, you don't need to be "bailed out" for your purchase decision...we shouldn't be bailing out speeculators When the speculators vote, yes, you need to bail out the speculators. > It's called buyer's remorse It's called building consensus. At the end of the day, if it costs making homeowners whole to gain their buy in to solve the housing crisis, that's mone…

I agree there are political considerations, but we are talking about a scenario where the only damage done is that the buyer must continue to live in the home they purchased at the price they purchased it for, and where the recipient of government benefits is a household capable of purchasing a house, presumably at the height of the market. Is a tax dollar better spent placating grumpy homeowners who already have a p…

It’s a valid point of view. That said, for most homeowners it is as simple as: My house is multiples More expensive than my next expensive asset. Loosing all the equity in my home will affect my lifestyle and financial future negatively, a lot. I will therefore continue to vote against whatever brings home values down.

There really isn’t an easy and elegant way out where you neither pay off the haves nor pitch the have nots majority against the haves.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#185

Post by phkahler »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #54
aynyc wrote: post #33

Just because this doesn’t magically solve the housing crisis, doesn’t mean it’s not a good start. We have to stop looking at magical solutions that will solve all our problems in one shot. We have to start somewhere.

> because this doesn’t magically solve the housing crisis It does. Twenty thousand units represent about 5% of Denver's housing stock [1]. Commit to adding this many units to the housing stock every year for the next 10 years and you'll have solved the housing crisis. (You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater, but that's a separate issue.) [1] http://censusreporter.org/pr…

Nope. Smaller more affordable homes would be a better solution. Most people who rent cant afford to buy, but rent is a worse deal long term.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#186

Post by Alive-in-2025 »

standardUser wrote: post #110
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because this doesn’t magically solve the housing crisis It does. Twenty thousand units represent about 5% of Denver's housing stock [1]. Commit to adding this many units to the housing stock every year for the next 10 years and you'll have solved the housing crisis. (You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater, but that's a separate issue.) [1] http://censusreporter.org/pr…

> You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater If you buy a house for $400k, and suddenly it is worth $300k, you don't need to be "bailed out" for your purchase decision. You should have been certain that the house was worth $400k to you at the time of purchase. Otherwise you're a speculator, and we shouldn't be bailing out speculators. It's called buyer's remorse. We accept…

You never know what your house or apartment or condo is worth, even to you. Maybe you can afford $400k barely, but you'll be hugely squeezed. Or maybe you'd get a bigger place if prices had dropped for your family size.

You hope conditions won't change. You can look at the current market trends to try to value it. But things will change in the next few years probably. You can guess, but you'll never "know with pretty good accuracy". The economy can go down, interest rates can change, major employers can come and go, there can be an earthquake or cancerous ground discovered there.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#187

Post by hnthrow90348765 »

mooreds wrote: post #162

The basic laws of supply and demand work!

"hey guys check this out i figured out people will pay anything to avoid dying on the streets haha supply demand number go up. what about if we do food and water next"

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#188

Post by dragonwriter »

dastbe wrote: post #183
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are talking about a scenario where the only damage done is that the buyer must continue to live in the home they purchased at the price they purchased it for In non-recourse states, you'd expect to see defaults as people leave the keys in the mail to reduce their housing costs by moving next door at the reduced price or rent. More broadly, people don't like seeing their wealth go down. > Is a tax dollar better s…

> In non-recourse states, you'd expect to see defaults as people leave the keys in the mail to reduce their housing costs by moving next door at the reduced price or rent. More broadly, people don't like seeing their wealth go down. At the trade-off of never being able to get a mortgage again, unless that's the bailout these homeowners get. Almost everyone will either sit tight or rent/sell at a loss. That being said…

> At the trade-off of never being able to get a mortgage again

That's not the effect of abandoning a mortgage (or using the leverage provided by that option to secure lender approval for a short sale) in a non-recourse state.

(Source: been there, done that, have a new mortgage since.)

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#189

Post by mathattack »

The last paragraph should temper our enthusiasm. Allowing people to build more when there is a shortage is the best way to have markets solve problems.

—-

“ Meanwhile, the pipeline of new apartment buildings is drying up. The number of properties under construction is down by roughly one-third from the peak in 2023, the report found. That likely means fewer units coming available in the months ahead, potentially giving landlords room to start raising rents again.”

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#190

Post by Retric »

phkahler wrote: post #185
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because this doesn’t magically solve the housing crisis It does. Twenty thousand units represent about 5% of Denver's housing stock [1]. Commit to adding this many units to the housing stock every year for the next 10 years and you'll have solved the housing crisis. (You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater, but that's a separate issue.) [1] http://censusreporter.org/pr…

Nope. Smaller more affordable homes would be a better solution. Most people who rent cant afford to buy, but rent is a worse deal long term.

For single family homes square footage alone has a fairly modest impact on housing prices.

Land, driveway, number and quality of fixtures, electrical hookups, cabinets, countertops, doors, clearing land, water, sewage, etc can be nearly identical costs for a 1,000 sf or a 3,000sf home. Many things like wall insulation and heating demand increase sub linearly with square footage.

Which is why home builders so heavily favor large homes by historic standards. This is slightly less true of high rises, but making the building wider doesn’t require more elevators, internal hallways, etc.

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