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AI is a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser

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21–30 of 218 posts

Re: AI is a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser

#21
post #7
post #2

[flagged]

Imagine how useful it would be we could just add a button show our approval or disapproval of a piece of content without having to type true or false in the comment section. Let’s call it upvote or downvote button. /s

I agree it wasn't a helpful comment.

On the other hand, I don't know what this mythical downvote button for stories is you describe. I've certainly never seen it.

Would be nice if HN actually had that.

Re: AI is a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser

#22
post #14

Since agents are good only at greenfield projects, the logical conclusion is that existing codebases have to be prepared such that new features are (opinionated) greenfield projects - let all the wiring dangle out of the wall so the intern just has to plug in the appliance. All the rest has to be done by humans, or the intern will rip open the wall to hang a picture.

Hogwash. If you can't figure out how to do something with project Y from npm try checking it out from Github with WebStorm and asking Junie how to do it -- often you get a good answer right away. If not you can ask questions that can help you understand the code base. Don't understand some data structure which is a maze of Map(s) it will scan how it is used and give you draft documentation.

Sure you can't point it to a Jira ticket and get a PR but you certainly can use it as a pair programmer. I wouldn't say it is much faster than working alone but I end up writing more tests and arguing with it over error handling means I do a better job in the end.

Re: AI is a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser

#23
post #14

Since agents are good only at greenfield projects, the logical conclusion is that existing codebases have to be prepared such that new features are (opinionated) greenfield projects - let all the wiring dangle out of the wall so the intern just has to plug in the appliance. All the rest has to be done by humans, or the intern will rip open the wall to hang a picture.

They’re not. They’re good at many things and bad at many things. The more I use them the more I’m confused about which is which.

Re: AI is a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser

#24
post #20

People should be worried because right now AI is on an exponential growth trajectory and no-one knows when it will level off into an s-curve. AI is starting to get close to good enough. If it becomes twice as good in seven months then what?

What's the basis for your claim that it is on an exponential growth trajectory? That's not the way it feels to me as a fairly heavy user, it feels more like an asymptotic approach to expert human level performance where each new model gets a bit closer but is not yet reaching it, at least in areas where I am expert enough to judge. Improvements since the original ChatGPT don't feel exponential to me.

Re: AI is a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser

#25
post #6

AI raises everything - the ceiling is just being more productive. Productivity comes from adequacy and potency of tools. We got a hell of a strong tool in our hands, therefore, the more adequate the usage, the higher the leverage.

Surprised to see this downvoted. It feels true to me. Sure there are definitely novel areas where folks might not benefit but I can see a future where this tool becomes helpful for the vast majority of roles.

Re: AI is a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser

#26
post #20

People should be worried because right now AI is on an exponential growth trajectory and no-one knows when it will level off into an s-curve. AI is starting to get close to good enough. If it becomes twice as good in seven months then what?

Let's look:

GPT-1 June 2018

GPT-2 February 2019

GPT-3 November 2021

GPT-4 March 2023

Claude tells me this is the rough improvement of each:

GPT-1 to 2: 5-10x

GPT-2 to 3: 10-20x

GPT 3 to 4: 2-4x

Now it's been 2.5 years since 4.

Are you expecting 5 to be 2-4x better, or 10-20x better?

Re: AI is a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser

#27
There are some things that you still can't do with LLMs. For example, if you tried to learn chess by having the LLM play against you, you'd quickly find that it isn't able to track a series of moves for very long (usually 5-10 turns; the longest I've seen it last was 18) before it starts making illegal choices. It also generally accepts invalid moves from your side, so you'll never be corrected if you're wrong about how to use a certain piece.

Because it can't actually model these complex problems, it really requires awareness from the user regarding what questions should and shouldn't be asked. An LLM can probably tell you how a knight moves, or how to respond to the London System. It probably can't play a full game of chess with you, and will virtually never be able to advise you on the best move given the state of the board. It probably can give you information about big companies that are well-covered in its training data. It probably can't give you good information about most sub-$1b public companies. But, if you ask, it will give a confident answer.

They're a minefield for most people and use cases, because people aren't aware of how wrong they can be, and the errors take effort and knowledge to notice. It's like walking on a glacier and hoping your next step doesn't plunge through the snow and into a deep, hidden crevasse.

Re: AI is a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser

#28
I was thinking about this sentiment on my long car drive today.

it feels like when you need to paint walls in your house. If you've never done it before you'll probably reach for tape to make sure you don't ruin the ceiling and floors. the tape is a tool for amateur wall painters to get decent results somewhat efficiently compared to if they didn't. If your an actual good wall painter, tape only slows you down. You'll go faster without the "help".

Re: AI is a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser

#29
This mirrors insights from Andrew Ng's recent AI startup talk [1].

I recall he mentions in this video that the new advice they are giving to founders is to throw away prototypes when they pivot instead of building onto a core foundation. This is because of the effects described in the article.

He also gives some provisional numbers (see the section "Rapid Prototyping and Engineering" and slides ~10:30) where he suggests prototype development sees a 10x boost compared to a 30-50% improvement for existing production codebases.

This feels vaguely analogous to the switch from "pets" to "livestock" when the industry switched from VMs to containers. Except, the new view is that your codebase is more like livestock and less like a pet. If true (and no doubt this will be a contentious topic to programmers who are excellent "pet" owners) then there may be some advantage in this new coding agent world to getting in on the ground floor and adopting practices that make LLMs productive.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNJCfif1dPY

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