Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

MacBook Pro Insomnia

manuel.bernhardt.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 238 posts

Re: MacBook Pro Insomnia

#91

Post by arijun »

arijun wrote: post #90
atombender wrote: post #39

Another trick is to open Activity Monitor, switch to the Energy tab, and sort by the "Preventing sleep" column. Some apps prevent macOS from sleeping. In my case, I've discovered that Devonthink (document/notes management app) is responsible. I've been meaning to file a bug report about it. I'm surprised that Apple's power management doesn't have an alert for this. Surely an app that causes my Mac to become glowing h…

I would rather have both, and I imagine the chrome one is easier to implement: either it asks for permissions or it doesn’t. Since there are valid reasons to keep the machine awake after closing the lid (close out connections, save files to disk, etc), it’s maybe harder to tell when one is going too long.

Actually, thinking about it, it wouldn’t be that hard to implement for both that and background processes that eat up cpu.

Re: MacBook Pro Insomnia

#93

Post by theevilsharpie »

evan_ wrote: post #60
ryandrake wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, as a different user, I'd expect the opposite: If my computer is "asleep" I don't expect it to do anything, and it shouldn't be able to wake itself up.

that's called "off".

Turning a machine off loses any existing application state, and requires both applications and the OS to be re-launched.

When I put a machine into standby, I want it to go in a standby state, and then stay there until I explicitly wake it -- not keep doing whatever background tasks the OS developers, app developers, or whatever other third parties think they need to keep doing.

Re: MacBook Pro Insomnia

#94

Post by mikepurvis »

sulam wrote: post #8
sangeeth96 wrote: post #2

> In my case, the “Wake for maintenance” option was disabled, and Sleep Aid helpfully showed in the settings interface that this could lead to frequent wake up events. Did author mean to write "option was enabled" instead?

I had the same thought, and while this is a complete guess, it passes my sniff test personally. It’s possible that when this setting is not enabled, those wake events are not coalesced into hourly wakeups, but instead happen arbitrarily throughout the night. That would immediately lead to the behavior described.

Yeah, sounds like it's really poorly labeled, and should instead be more like "Consolidate required maintenance tasks into hourly wake sessions"

That would make it much clearer that enabling it = fewer wakes.

Re: MacBook Pro Insomnia

#95

Post by atonse »

cruffle_duffle wrote: post #34
hoppp wrote: post #22

Imagine people who are not technical buying a new mac because of this...

Man, I’m not gonna start a platform war but my work laptop (some trashy HP thing) is so much worse. It could be due to the gobs of “Hyper-Endpoint Double-Kill Anti-Virus Defender Enterprise Edition” garbage they installed on it. That thing can’t even make it a full day with the lid closed before running out of battery. Back in my day they had a physical power switch that killed the mains to the power supply. Why we e…

As long as we're reminiscing...

I asked my dad to buy Windows 95. But he didn't realize he bought the floppy disk edition. So I had to install windows 95 using the very slow floppy drive. It was either 13 or 26 floppies, I don't remember.

Imagine sitting there while that percentage bar moved glacially, waiting for "Insert Disk 12"

But I still remember how great it felt to get a 1 GB hard drive. "We'll never fill it up!!!"

Re: MacBook Pro Insomnia

#96

Post by amluto »

ryandrake wrote: post #68
bayindirh wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any website and app can do it. Zoom / Google Meet / YouTube / Bandcamp / Spotify already does this. I don't think it needs to be hidden behind walls. Maybe a user override can be added. In Linux, KDE's power manager PowerDevil shows if something is blocking device or display sleep for example. I don't think it's hard to add an indicator in macOS, too.

Visibility isn't the problem. As OP mentioned, you can go into Activity Monitor to easily see what application is doing this. The user just doesn't seem to have any control over it or any way to stop a particular application from doing it.

I find something, presumably a Safari tab, blocking sleep regularly and not actually showing up in activity monitor.

Why is this not an opt-in thing? Heck, why can’t I turn it off? I can could the number of tabs that I want to allow to function when “sleeping” on zero fingers.

Re: MacBook Pro Insomnia

#97

Post by bayindirh »

fsckboy wrote: post #83
bayindirh wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd create a lot of interruptions for the user. Some apps use it temporarily in critical sections, web media players enable/disable when play/pause events happen, etc. An indicator and selective overrides is the way, IMHO. Invisible if you don't look, but it's there when you need it.

> Invisible if you don't look, but it's there when you need it. so, like a white picket fence vs an invisible fence™ for your dog: white picket fence (not to mention two kids) is so unsightly people would never use it as a metaphor for bliss, why not just give the dog his unexpected-can't-see-it-coming-shock collar? let him discover through repeated trial and error what he's allowed and what he is not. sounds about r…

Actually, the example in my mind was a bit different: "Elegantly invisible", I call it. Let me give a couple of examples.

In Europe, in some cities you see huge planters with blooming flowers. They are well looked after and a bliss to be around them. Look from above, they are strategically placed bollards. Even a tank can't pass through them. Smaller installations are made around banks for example. These "small", ordinary looking planters weigh a couple of tons, plus they're firmly planted to the ground. They are essentially fortified walls, but they don't distract you, and enhance the environment in a way, too.

In Amsterdam Central Station, there is a big locker room, which is invisible if you don't know, but very evident when you follow the signs.

My proposition was similar. A section under battery status menu: No Apps Preventing Sleep. Simple. Invisible, unobtrusive, but bright as day when you know where to look.

I don't like the design you gave examples for. I don't like things which I can't find, and only see if the app seems to be in the mood for it. My proposition is a bit more nuanced. You know where it is, you know where to look, but it's not an eye sore or a distraction.

Re: MacBook Pro Insomnia

#98

Post by nucleardog »

atombender wrote: post #39

Another trick is to open Activity Monitor, switch to the Energy tab, and sort by the "Preventing sleep" column. Some apps prevent macOS from sleeping. In my case, I've discovered that Devonthink (document/notes management app) is responsible. I've been meaning to file a bug report about it. I'm surprised that Apple's power management doesn't have an alert for this. Surely an app that causes my Mac to become glowing h…

> I'm surprised that Apple's power management doesn't have an alert for this.

I'm more surprised that any application can prevent sleep _when you close the lid_.

I can understand the utility behind something like stopping sleep via timeout so a media player can tell the system "hey, they're watching a movie don't turn off even if they don't touch you for a bit".

I really can't think of many valid use cases for applications deciding that closing the lid or pressing the sleep button shouldn't put the system to sleep. Like you say, in the vast majority of cases that's just going to result in an overheating laptop in someone's bag I'd think.

Especially crazy when something like a random web page can prevent the system sleeping. Laptop won't turn off... which of my 70 tabs is it?!

Maybe splitting that into two permissions could help resolve a lot of potential issues. Sure, let lots of things disable the sleep via timeout... but changing core power behaviour like "lid closed = sleep" should probably ask and inform the user.

Re: MacBook Pro Insomnia

#99

Post by vel0city »

magic_hamster wrote: post #88

Apple's definition of "sleep" is unique, to put it mildly. My MBP may be "sleeping" but it will still aggressively connect to any wireless interface. Sometimes when passing by with my Bluetooth headphones, the MBP will often steal my current connection. When a device goes to sleep, I don't expect it to interact with anything, even if I didn't deliberately turn off all wireless communication. Apple is the only one doi…

Apple is not the only one doing this. Windows, depending on how its configured and the hardware in it, will keep WiFi and even Bluetooth devices connected even while "asleep".

Example: I go out to the park with my Windows laptop. I turn on the computer. I pair my headphones and hop on my phone's wifi tethering. I do some stuff. I close my laptop lid, the system goes to "sleep". My headphones still think they're connected. My phone still shows the laptop is a client. I walk around the park for an hour. My headphones are still connected, my laptop is still a client on the tethering. I sit down, I open my laptop, it wakes up, and it's still connected to everything.

Re: MacBook Pro Insomnia

#100

Post by masspro »

ectocardia wrote: post #82

In case this helps anyone, I found that removing a Yubikey (i.e. with that contact sensor) seemed to reduce the number of times I opened my bag to find a Macbook Pro unexpectedly warm and with a drained battery.

Do you have an M1? I’m really hoping this is a USB-chipset-specific problem that got fixed. That hope is supported by…one random Reddit comment.
Post reply on HN