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Vibe code is legacy code

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Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#101

Post by simonw »

mr_donk wrote: post #61

Don't you think the next step is a programming language that isn't even meant to be human readable? What's the point of using an LLM to generate python or Swift or whatever? The output of the LLM should be something that runs and does whatever it's been asked to do... why should the implementation be some programming language that was designed for humans to grok? Once that's true the idea of it being maintainable bec…

All good software is in a constant state of maintenance - users figure out new things they want to do so requirements are constantly changing.

A running joke we had at my startup years ago was "... and after we ship this feature we'll be finished and we will never have to write another line of code again!"

Good software is built with future changes in mind - that's why I care so much about things like automated test suites and documentation and code maintainability.

Letting LLMs generate black box garbage code sounds like a terrible idea to me. The idea that LLMs will get so good at coding that we won't mind is pure science fiction - writing code is only one part of the craft of delivering useful software.

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#102

Post by WD-42 »

codingdave wrote: post #60
WD-42 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This definition doesn't make any sense to me. If code at an org is working, and there are people or at least a person at that company that understands it, how is it legacy? Just because it's been around for a while? At what age according to your definition, does perfect working code that can be improved or added to by currently employed developers, become "legacy"? I feel like you are falling into the "keeping up wit…

The problem with the definition is that if a business has some ancient COBOL code with one guy left who understands it, then your definition would say that is not legacy code. And that is what makes no sense. It becomes legacy when it is no longer running on a tech stack that matches the future strategy of the organization. Legacy is a strategic label, not an engineering label. There is no age where something becomes…

Okay, I could get behind that definition if you could tell me what you call code that aligns perfectly with the "strategic future of the organization" but nobody at said company understands or can work on?

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#103

Post by xorcist »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #67

A story about a non-technical friend: friend vibe coded a SaaS last year and started generating revenue with almost no marketing; all word of mouth and inbound in a niche industry. Used Replit and Supabase to build the thing; I am still really impressed by what he was able to do given how complex the app ended up becoming as he interacted with customers. What I think happened: there are two incumbents in this space t…

Will his customers trust him a second time though?

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#104

Post by [deleted] »

pyman wrote: post #2

Something interesting is happening. A false narrative is spreading online, pushed by people who know little about engineering, and others who should know better. They claim junior devs are now 10x more productive, and project managers are shipping code themselves. Now, close your eyes for five seconds and try to picture what that code looks like. It's 100% legacy, disposable code. The problem isn't AI, or PMs turning…

[deleted]

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#105

Post by PessimalDecimal »

mr_donk wrote: post #61

Don't you think the next step is a programming language that isn't even meant to be human readable? What's the point of using an LLM to generate python or Swift or whatever? The output of the LLM should be something that runs and does whatever it's been asked to do... why should the implementation be some programming language that was designed for humans to grok? Once that's true the idea of it being maintainable bec…

What problem does this solve? I can tell you what problems it creates.

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#106

Post by Joel_Mckay »

matt_cogito wrote: post #97

All production code will be written by AI. The question is not if. It is WHEN. What we are seeing right in front of our eyes is how the boundaries of what is possible in the realm of software programming has gone from AI/LLMs poorly writing simple scripts, to being able to "zero-shoot" and "vibe code" a complex system, with a set of instructions written in natural language. What we might be seeing in 2025 is how prog…

Statistically salient answers are not necessarily correct.

Real "AI" may happen some day, but it is unlikely going to be an LLM. =3

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#107

Post by Fokamul »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #67

A story about a non-technical friend: friend vibe coded a SaaS last year and started generating revenue with almost no marketing; all word of mouth and inbound in a niche industry. Used Replit and Supabase to build the thing; I am still really impressed by what he was able to do given how complex the app ended up becoming as he interacted with customers. What I think happened: there are two incumbents in this space t…

Which country?

But I'm guessing there are lawsuits incomming with GDPR/US equivalent fines.

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#108

Post by code_runner »

matt_cogito wrote: post #97

All production code will be written by AI. The question is not if. It is WHEN. What we are seeing right in front of our eyes is how the boundaries of what is possible in the realm of software programming has gone from AI/LLMs poorly writing simple scripts, to being able to "zero-shoot" and "vibe code" a complex system, with a set of instructions written in natural language. What we might be seeing in 2025 is how prog…

I’m also surprised at the progress but don’t quite share the “AI is doing a good job” perspective.

It’s fine. Some things it’s awful at. The more you know about what you’re asking for the worse the result in my opinion.

That said a lot of my complaints are out of date apis being referenced and other little nuisances. If ai is writing the code, why did we even need an ergonomic api update in the first place. Maybe apis stabilize and ai just goes nuts.

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#109

Post by simonw »

cpursley wrote: post #49

I don't agree with this, my code quality is much better now. But you have to stay on the LLM's ass in terms of guidance and review it all (this is a given). I think part of it is the LLMs writes more "standard" code instead of getting creative with architecture, etc. It helps to create guides and correct context, proper test coverage just as you would if working with other people.

"I don't agree with this, my code quality is much better now. But you have to stay on the LLM's ass in terms of guidance and review it all (this is a given)."

Sounds to me like you're not vibe coding, you're coding. https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/19/vibe-coding/

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#110

Post by WD-42 »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #67

A story about a non-technical friend: friend vibe coded a SaaS last year and started generating revenue with almost no marketing; all word of mouth and inbound in a niche industry. Used Replit and Supabase to build the thing; I am still really impressed by what he was able to do given how complex the app ended up becoming as he interacted with customers. What I think happened: there are two incumbents in this space t…

I would not default to assuming it was his competitors, that sounds like scapegoating to deflect responsibility. What most likely happened is his site was scanned by one of the increasingly sophisticated exploit crawlers (anyone who runs an internet facing site and can view traffic knows what I'm talking about). His site got flagged as vulnerable, the hacker found out it was built like swiss cheese and had fun with it.
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