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Vibe code is legacy code

blog.val.town

31–40 of 473 posts

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#31
post #2

Something interesting is happening. A false narrative is spreading online, pushed by people who know little about engineering, and others who should know better. They claim junior devs are now 10x more productive, and project managers are shipping code themselves. Now, close your eyes for five seconds and try to picture what that code looks like. It's 100% legacy, disposable code. The problem isn't AI, or PMs turning…

> And a product is not the same as an MVP

Tell that to almost every company I've worked for!

The whole "make it to the next financial quarter" attitude among directors and C-suite these days leads to the kind of crap where developers build an MVP and then are made to move on to the next thing. Like you said, it's not really about vibe coding at all. To a degree, they're right; the perception of feature richness leads to the bottom line irrespective of quality because few are truly comparing products, assuming it's feasible.

Hell, are developers (which we now call engineers apparently) even empowered to prototype things these days? I'm sure it happens, but it doesn't seem all that common. Maybe it happens in the gaming industry and actual tech (not "big tech"). Most coding outfits don't provide much affordance for that. It's just MVPs all the way down. At best, vibe coding just accelerates that process while quality suffers.

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#32
post #2

Something interesting is happening. A false narrative is spreading online, pushed by people who know little about engineering, and others who should know better. They claim junior devs are now 10x more productive, and project managers are shipping code themselves. Now, close your eyes for five seconds and try to picture what that code looks like. It's 100% legacy, disposable code. The problem isn't AI, or PMs turning…

Even thinking outside of product view point - speaking technically, I can't think of anything worse than junior dev's or PM's determining what they want technology-wise. At least once a week in my entire career I've had to shoot down awful ideas because they would be unnecessarily risky, won't possibly scale beyond minor use case, etc. I would hazard a guess it's going to be extremely profitable being a consultant in…

> I would hazard a guess it's going to be extremely profitable being a consultant in the next few years.

I hope so. This is something I'm hoping to get into. As long as companies are trying to push their internal teams to use AI tools, I think it makes sense to position myself to follow along after them and clear the mess

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#33

> We already have a phrase for code that nobody understands: legacy code. Wow, no. Bad misunderstanding of what legacy means. Long-lived organizations all eventually go through tech renovations, where they re-platform their business functionality onto more modern systems. But sometimes, the cost/benefit analysis to that re-platforming doesn't make sense... yet. The pieces of the business still running on the former p…

> People do understand it. Often, deeply understand it because they wrote it, and have lived and supported it for years. They know the reason behind the tech debt, all the odd tech constraints that drove it to where it is, they can keep the thing running without breaking a sweat. It is second-nature to them.

I don't think it counts as legacy code if the original devs are still around to work on it

Legacy is not just "old" it is something that was left behind by someone else

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#34
interesting but i have thought about it. rarely is ours as well. All my code is original but based on my past experiences from learning, thinking about it, and improving it based on new knowledge i know. my 2cents.

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#35
IMO, the time of "code as math" is over. No sufficiently large software system that interacts with the real world is provable to be correct like a mathematical statement is. They are all complicated, engineered systems that are backed by a mix of formal guarantees, earned design principals, experimental testing, rules of thumb, acceptable performance envelopes, etc

This is what all software will become, down to the smallest script. The vast majority of software does not need to be provably correct in a mathematical way. It just needs to get the job done. People love the craft of programming, so I get it, it's uncomfortable to let go.

But what is going to win out in the end:

- An unreadable 100K loc program backed by 50K tests, guaranteeing behavior to the client requirements. Cost: $50K of API tokens

- A well engineered and honed 30K loc program, built by humans, with elegant abstractions. Backed by 3K tests. Built to the same requirements. Cost: $300K of developer time.

If I am a consumer of software, and not particularly interested in the details, I am going to choose the option that is 6x cheaper, every time.

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#36

> and throwaway projects I have seldom encountered these. What I encounter, instead, are lashups that the engineering team thought would be throwaway, but which Management made "Final Ship" code. I have learned to always do "ship-shape" code; even for the most innocuous projects. I may be a bit sloppy as I'm exploring different paths, but the minute I decide on a firm plan, the code cleanup and documentation starts.

Vibe coding is allowing everyone (including me!) to make way more apps in my personal life that are very throwaway. I think some folks are doing this in business contexts too. But this is a real game-changer for non-technical folks

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#37

> We already have a phrase for code that nobody understands: legacy code. Wow, no. Bad misunderstanding of what legacy means. Long-lived organizations all eventually go through tech renovations, where they re-platform their business functionality onto more modern systems. But sometimes, the cost/benefit analysis to that re-platforming doesn't make sense... yet. The pieces of the business still running on the former p…

This definition doesn't make any sense to me. If code at an org is working, and there are people or at least a person at that company that understands it, how is it legacy? Just because it's been around for a while? At what age according to your definition, does perfect working code that can be improved or added to by currently employed developers, become "legacy"? I feel like you are falling into the "keeping up with the Jones'" trap.

I much more agree with the blog author. Once the last developer that has a deep understanding of a codebase moves on (or simply forgets it all), that's the point it becomes legacy.

Re: Vibe code is legacy code

#39
post #20

Is the argument that it's better to start from an empty code editor than having AI create a working first version? I've found it faster to have AI write the code, revise with instructions as necessary, and delve into the code itself if I need to.

The argument is that if you intent to maintain the code you should keep the AI on a very tight leash, and at least understand the architecture of the code, if not every line.
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