Live data from Hacker News

Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

science.org

251–260 of 325 posts

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#251
The relation of these results to natural short sleep [0] is of great interest. In particular the observation that individuals with these mutations also appear to be protected from Alzheimer's disease. A strong indication that these mutations may have some downstream interaction with the mitochondrial maintenance cycle described in the parent article.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familial_natural_short_sleep

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#252
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some people just enjoy working.

Being addicted to workahol means they aren't able to enjoy other things. Your comment is like saying "maybe alcoholics just enjoy drinking".

I love working and I love doing other things too. Working doesn't get in the way of doing other things I also love.

Maybe alcoholics do enjoy drinking. But working 60 hours a week isn't going to cause brain damage and liver failure on its own. Productivity isn't a chemical or vice.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#253
post #6

Something I thought was just an internet tale: mitochondria are close descendants of bacteria, and so taking antibiotics will potentially harm them. But turns out this is actually rooted in science ...

The core principle of classic antibiotics is affecting the bacterial (prokaryotic) common ribosomal structure and not the eukaryotic ribosome, they are very diverged.

That's not to say there couldn't be some unrelated effect, but that's why we test medicine.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#254
post #154
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the ancient mystery of why we need sleep might have just been answered. I would be very surprised if sleep would serve only one purpose. In complex interconnected systems you usually don't get far with monocausal explanations.

When I'm awake for a very long time (32hrs+) it feels like there is poison built up in my mind, then sleep clears it up/feel better. Also if you lift in the mornings you feel lack of sleep/alcohol sleep disruption.

> it feels like there is poison built up in my mind, then sleep clears it up/feel better.

I'm not sure how common this is, but I feel this acutely after sustained mental exertion (e.g. reading informational material for a few hours). A deep 15 minute nap takes the feeling away completely without any grogginess.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#255
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's this prion disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_insomnia

And there is the hereditary version: fatal familial insomnia [FFI]) stemming from a mutation in the PRNP gene.

Yes, it does seem to cause one death per year worldwide and is a long onset disorder with psychiatric symptoms. One need not be afraid of not sleeping in general though. (Being worried about lack of sleep is one of the common causes of lack of sleep.)

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do sponges sleep?

Presumably. Some jellyfish sleep[1] But do fungi and Archea sleep? My guess based on what we read is yes and no. [1] https://www.science.org/content/article/if-alive-sleeps-brai...

Yea, but at some point this is probably gonna strain the colloquial definition of sleep. So I went for one of the oldest and perhaps simplest animals around, to examine the "creature" angle in extrema.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you need oxygen, then you need sleep! Do plants sleep? Don't some insects, like flies, live without any sleep?

No, plants don't sleep, and neither do fungi or single celled organisms. Sleep seems to be a property specifically of animals.

By which criteria? They do respond to daily cycles. How do you know they do not sleep?

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#258
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean it as an attack on GP, but no, I don't agree that this is pedantic. This happens constantly when science is popularized -- people read one article and leap to the conclusion that a problem has been revolutionized/solved/answered simply because they're reading about it -- and no, the HN audience is no better. Technophiles love a good scientific revolution story. It's very much a fundamental misunderstandi…

It might not be intended as an attack, but it does feels like one (especially that unnecesary jab at technophiles). Also I find it incredibly ironic that you are making so many assumptions about what GP meant, what HN audience understands from the article and what they will make of it just to make a point about philosophy of science and popsci.

It wasn't a "jab". There's no other way to say it -- technophiles fall into this trap constantly.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#259
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, plants don't sleep, and neither do fungi or single celled organisms. Sleep seems to be a property specifically of animals.

By which criteria? They do respond to daily cycles. How do you know they do not sleep?

> Across the animal kingdom sleep satisfies most, though not necessarily all, of the following criteria: (1) decreased brain arousal and its behavioral correlate, decreased responsiveness to an animal’s surroundings, which distinguishes sleep from immobile wakefulness (also known as rest); (2) electrical changes in the brain’s activity patterns relative to the waking state; (3) behavioral quiescence, often accompanied by a preferred location and characteristic posture; (4) rapid reversibility, which distinguishes sleep from hibernation, anesthesia and coma; (5) homeostatic regulation, in which lost episodes of behavioral quiescence and low arousal are followed by compensatory (rebound) episodes [10].

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5120870/

4 and 5 don't seem to be exemplified by plants.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#260
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I still 'believe'. Wake-sleep algorithm [1] is a good start for speculation. I think brain needs to be in a different mode to reorganize its weights and to forget unnecessary things to prevent overfitting. In this mode we happen to be unconscious. I also believe dreams are just hallucinations caused by random noise input to the system. The brain converts noise distribution to a meaningful distribution and…

When we don’t sleep, we can lose sensory and cognitive coherence. Mild visual hallucinations begin and reality can start slipping. Sleep itself is characterized by coherent neural activity— the large number of brain regions with synchronized neural activity. The slow waves where huge numbers are all firing close together in a rhythm. Low frequency and high amplitude delta brainwaves (1-2 hertz). Complex adaptive brai…

> not sleeping is one of my favorite drugs. Can be a major performance enhancer, even if it is variable.

Sleep deprivation is a well known treatment for depression [1]. Maybe you lean to the depressive side, that would explain positive effects.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation#Treating_dep...

Post reply on HN