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.NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

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Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#71

Post by WorldMaker »

osigurdson wrote: post #48
sergiotapia wrote: post #46

I haven't used C#/.NET since .NET 4 - I remember it was great, yet heavily tied into Visual Studio, and forget about using CLI for things like most other languages. It was all GUI or nothing. Insurmountable XML files. How are things these days with .NET 10! Jesus, 10! Dudes who use it daily, what is your favorite feature you think?

The version numbers used to increase much more slowly. Since the .NET (modernized / cross platform) core "track" the version number increments every year.

The version increments roughly every 6 months. It's almost the exact same update cadence as NodeJS: LTS versions are even numbers released in the Fall and STS versions are odd numbers released in the Spring. STS often focuses on "bleeding edge features" and LTS often on performance and stability. (Though both are year round projects and there are bleeding edge features in an LTS and perf/stability fixes in an STS.)

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#72

Post by eyegor »

munchler wrote: post #61
jug wrote: post #32

My favorite .NET 10 feature so far is not within the .NET library itself, but `dotnet tool exec` to run C# files as scripts without a build step. This has been available in F# for a long time via `dotnet fsi`, and for C# also via the third party cs-script tool. It took a surprisingly long time to officially reach the primary .NET language! I only really wish C# would’ve been directly integrated as an alternative scri…

One of many examples of C# following in F#'s footprints years later. F# deserves a higher profile in the .NET ecosystem.

F# has been a third class citizen for a long time... Last I heard the entire f# team was ~10 people. Pretty sure "find references" still doesn't work across c# and f# (if you call a c# method from f# or vise versa). That also means symbol renames don't work correctly.

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#73

Post by reactordev »

thewebguyd wrote: post #51
pjmlp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much doubt about TS.Net, given the rewrite in Go decision. .NET nowadays has a serious adoption problem, and they should spend more time talking with their own colleagues at Azure, about their use of Java, Go, Rust.

> .NET nowadays has a serious adoption problem It's seriously going to make people question the future of the platform. Look at Microsoft's actions, not their words. TS Compiler: Go New TUI Editor: Rust Winget: C++ (this would have been a great candidate for .NET) At least PowerToys is C#. .NET is great, but why isn't it good enough for Microsoft? The company that historically has had such a strong culture of dogfood…

The issue was in the beginning they didn’t think interop with C/C++ was value add. People complained and they added “Managed C++” which unfortunately influenced C++03’s design a lot. It wasn’t until C++11 that Microsoft gave up. You couldn’t effectively interop with C++ without writing a managed C++ wrapper, which only worked on windows. They added support for P/Invoke to aid in Win32 calls (shell.dll, user32.dll) as a simple fix and we went nuts for it. Wrote wrappers using P/Invoke and a config map nightmare of which dll’s, or dylib’s, or so’s, you needed to get the form to show.

Fast forward to today… Rust can interop with C natively. Go can as well, though you’re bringing your luggage with you with CGO. .Net hasn’t ever really had that kind of focus. For one, IL, two, Microsoft saw the platform as a cash cow, three, ecosystem lock in allowed a thriving “MVP” contractor community.

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#74

Post by zaphar »

devwastaken wrote: post #64

reminder the .net compiler is IP of microsoft and they state this clearly when you invoke it on any platform other than windows. you are merging your company with microsoft and windows if you use it.

It is fully open source so... who cares?

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#75

Post by reactordev »

cogman10 wrote: post #65
pjmlp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much doubt about TS.Net, given the rewrite in Go decision. .NET nowadays has a serious adoption problem, and they should spend more time talking with their own colleagues at Azure, about their use of Java, Go, Rust.

I blame historic microsoft for their anti-oss stance. It kneecapped the .net ecosystem for over a decade and created an attitude of "if it isn't in .NET, I won't use it".

I agree as well. The hostile attitude towards OSS under Ballmer led to this. Nadella had the correct approach and a year later, started repairing those bridges, joining the Linux Foundation.

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#76

Post by WorldMaker »

sergiotapia wrote: post #46

I haven't used C#/.NET since .NET 4 - I remember it was great, yet heavily tied into Visual Studio, and forget about using CLI for things like most other languages. It was all GUI or nothing. Insurmountable XML files. How are things these days with .NET 10! Jesus, 10! Dudes who use it daily, what is your favorite feature you think?

Favorite recent language feature is a big investment in C# pattern matching. It's a big feature from the functional programming world rare to see in "Enterprise" languages.

Favorite recent runtime feature is all the cool low level stuff opened up by Span (and Memory). It has a similarity to Rust borrowing, but well integrated into the CLR's existing type system. It has opened all sorts of performance code possibilities that is still memory-safe/type-safe with fewer needs for falling back to "unsafe" operations. This is not just exciting because it is an interesting playground if you like low-level programming, but also because it has been a performance flood lifting all boats in the .NET ecosystem. A lot of code over the last few years has gotten easy performance boosts by just recompiling (because the compilers were taught to prefer Span/Memory overloads when they get added; no change to C# or F# code, just the compiler picking a new performance path).

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#77

Post by terandle »

rafaelmn wrote: post #27
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #2

All I want is for dotnet watch to behave in a predictable way. In .NET 9, even when using —no-hot-reload, sometimes CSS changes to components are not picked up on Blazor components. It’s so aggravating because ASP.NET with server side Blazor components really has it all: type safety, server-side components ala Astro, fantastic ORM model, great runtime perf. But this little issue makes dev quite tedious at present: di…

I inherited an MVC app that has a bunch of jQuery rendering crap and I would like to move to server side components - since you seem to be into Blazor Server side - have you heard of HTMX ? What would you say would be the benefit of Blazor vs HTMX and Razor Pages for subviews ? My experience with Microsoft UI toolkits after winforms, is that they are all janky over-engineered stuff (Silverlight/WPF/Xamarin/Maui) terr…

Blazor static server side + HTMX is probably the only way to make a cost efficient and performant version of Blazor suitable for public websites. WASM is way too big and slow, Websockets take up server resources and cause problems with timeouts where the user has to refresh their screen losing all state.

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#78

Post by [deleted] »

atombender wrote: post #50
tester756 wrote: post #11

.NET was the most sane programming ecosystem that I worked in. Great CLI, great package manager, very good stdlib, strong IDEs/Debuggers, etc. but sadly interesting jobs like OSes, databases and compilers are way less common than in C++ world :(

Do you know about any sizeable open source projects written in C#, other than what Microsoft has produced? I rarely come across anything written in it.

[deleted]

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#79

Post by Nelkins »

atombender wrote: post #50
tester756 wrote: post #11

.NET was the most sane programming ecosystem that I worked in. Great CLI, great package manager, very good stdlib, strong IDEs/Debuggers, etc. but sadly interesting jobs like OSes, databases and compilers are way less common than in C++ world :(

Do you know about any sizeable open source projects written in C#, other than what Microsoft has produced? I rarely come across anything written in it.

Akka.NET and AvaloniaUI are two big ones.

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#80

Post by recursive »

jug wrote: post #32

My favorite .NET 10 feature so far is not within the .NET library itself, but `dotnet tool exec` to run C# files as scripts without a build step. This has been available in F# for a long time via `dotnet fsi`, and for C# also via the third party cs-script tool. It took a surprisingly long time to officially reach the primary .NET language! I only really wish C# would’ve been directly integrated as an alternative scri…

I've wanted this for a long time. After reading this link, and the MS release announcement, I still don't understand what a "tool" is, or how you can use `tool exec` to run a single *.cs file. Is there a straight-forward recipe anywhere for doing this targeted at absolute simpletons?
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