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'70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

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Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#41

Post by Mashimo »

californical wrote: post #37
habosa wrote: post #18

I ride my ebike to work every day. I love it, it's a lot more convenient than my old manual bike was (more durable, less sweating in hilly SF). I really try hard to be conscientious and not do anything on it that a very strong normal cyclist wouldn't/couldn't do. I almost never have any occasion to top 20mph on it, except maybe when going down a steep hill. I don't want to advocate for more regulations on biking but…

I don’t think that a sweeping speed limit ban is helpful. FWIW, I don’t own an e-bike and have only borrowed them from other people a few times. In the more rural, even suburban areas, it might be totally safe, even safer to go 25-30mph instead of 20, if you’re on a road with 35mph car traffic. I agree with you for major cities, I’ve had to deal with the antisocial people who rip through crowds.. but a sweeping ban l…

You could classify very fast e-bikes as scooters / moppets. That why you can still drive them, but maybe you can't share the bike lane any more.

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#42

Post by shkkmo »

Sayrus wrote: post #14
potato3732842 wrote: post #5

Going 30 on anything that resembles a bike in geometry and construction is not a leisurely activity one engages in casually. 40 is pushing it, 50 you know is unsafe. 70 is a publicity stunt in a controlled environment. Yes, I know road bikes (with or without electricity) hit high speeds in certain situations, but those situations are away from traffic or potential traffic, a big downhill in the middle of nowhere or a…

Let's face it, an e-bike that goes to 70 rarely looks like a bike. For instance: - https://hpcbikes.com/products/revolution-xx - https://www.eridepros.com/pro-sr (no bicycle pedals) I was able to find some 60MPH e-bikes that looks somewhat like a very bulky bike but even then, it's still closer to a motorcycle with pedals.

That's not an e-bike. That's an e-moto. It is sold and marketed as an e-moto and has no pedals. Depending on the jusrisdiction. these can often only be legally ridden on private property since they aren't street legal motorcycles. Some jurisdiction may allow them to be used in public OHV areas.

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#43

Post by nicoburns »

californical wrote: post #37
habosa wrote: post #18

I ride my ebike to work every day. I love it, it's a lot more convenient than my old manual bike was (more durable, less sweating in hilly SF). I really try hard to be conscientious and not do anything on it that a very strong normal cyclist wouldn't/couldn't do. I almost never have any occasion to top 20mph on it, except maybe when going down a steep hill. I don't want to advocate for more regulations on biking but…

I don’t think that a sweeping speed limit ban is helpful. FWIW, I don’t own an e-bike and have only borrowed them from other people a few times. In the more rural, even suburban areas, it might be totally safe, even safer to go 25-30mph instead of 20, if you’re on a road with 35mph car traffic. I agree with you for major cities, I’ve had to deal with the antisocial people who rip through crowds.. but a sweeping ban l…

I think higher speeds should be allowed, but they should be liscensed like any other motocycle (perhaps they're their own class with their own rules, but they should be registered with a license).

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#44

Post by olivermuty »

mPReDiToR wrote: post #23

Unless a cop actually sees you doing a ridiculous speed they aren't going to check for P/W ratio or motor output Electric scooters are illegal in the UK, but police don't have time or inclination to stop their widespread usage on public roads, and you're safe to ride past them unless you're doing something stupid. So many things like this have people getting away with it that the laws are just ignored eventually. Whe…

Why not?

We have a TON of ebikes i Norway and the cops regularly do checkpoints of suspected chippers in the main commute routes.

They have a little threadmill thing similar to what chiptuners use when tuning car engines that measure torque, watt and top speed.

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#45

Post by type0 »

throw0101c wrote: post #13

I personally like the EU rule (168/2013) on e-bikes for this: > pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h [15.5 mph] * https://en…

> rated power of less than or equal to 250 W

these power ratings are usually incorrect and depending on construction of e-bike might not be enough for good acceleration uphill

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#46

Post by Sayrus »

shkkmo wrote: post #42
Sayrus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's face it, an e-bike that goes to 70 rarely looks like a bike. For instance: - https://hpcbikes.com/products/revolution-xx - https://www.eridepros.com/pro-sr (no bicycle pedals) I was able to find some 60MPH e-bikes that looks somewhat like a very bulky bike but even then, it's still closer to a motorcycle with pedals.

That's not an e-bike. That's an e-moto. It is sold and marketed as an e-moto and has no pedals. Depending on the jusrisdiction. these can often only be legally ridden on private property since they aren't street legal motorcycles. Some jurisdiction may allow them to be used in public OHV areas.

I realized that and edited my comment with a link for one with pedals, bicycle saddle and 10kW power.

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#47

Post by throw0101c »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #30
throw0101c wrote: post #13

I personally like the EU rule (168/2013) on e-bikes for this: > pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h [15.5 mph] * https://en…

What's the point of the weight ratio? If a 20kg motorcycle can do 4kW why is that a concern?

The latest generation of RAV4 has power of 176 kW (236 hp; 239 PS):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4#Sixth_generation_(...

A fairly recent iteration of BMW S1000RR motorcycle has 152 kW (204 hp; 207 PS):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S1000RR#2019_(K_67)

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_mot...

One can set lap records, the other cannot. Power-to-weight can determine performance a lot (it's why high-end sports cars often use carbon fibre).

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#48

Post by nluken »

hnuser123456 wrote: post #29
potato3732842 wrote: post #5

Going 30 on anything that resembles a bike in geometry and construction is not a leisurely activity one engages in casually. 40 is pushing it, 50 you know is unsafe. 70 is a publicity stunt in a controlled environment. Yes, I know road bikes (with or without electricity) hit high speeds in certain situations, but those situations are away from traffic or potential traffic, a big downhill in the middle of nowhere or a…

I have a class 3 ebike, so 20mph throttle-only, 28mph if you pretend to pedal for whatever reason. The requirement to pedal is more dangerous than the speed. It's fast, but on a long, straight, paved path, it's not that scary, and I wanted to go faster. If I could just throttle it up to 35mph, I wouldn't even need bike lanes around town. 45mph, and I could easily get to the next town over. It's a lighter, slower, che…

> If I could just throttle it up to 35mph, I wouldn't even need bike lanes around town. 45mph, and I could easily get to the next town over.

The "higher class" of which you speak has existed for a long time, albeit usually fulfilled by gas powered vehicles until recently: https://www.vespa.com/us_EN/models/primavera/primavera-50-4s...

There's a reason why we require license, registration, and insurance to operate mopeds but not bicycles. You're far more dangerous to pedestrians, other cyclists, and yourself at these kinds of speeds.

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#49

Post by the_snooze »

habosa wrote: post #18

I ride my ebike to work every day. I love it, it's a lot more convenient than my old manual bike was (more durable, less sweating in hilly SF). I really try hard to be conscientious and not do anything on it that a very strong normal cyclist wouldn't/couldn't do. I almost never have any occasion to top 20mph on it, except maybe when going down a steep hill. I don't want to advocate for more regulations on biking but…

I ride a (regular human-powered) bike everyday through a paved mixed-use trail. While I'm able to hit 25+ MPH under ideal conditions, I average closer to 13 MPH just due to the physical realities of manually pedalling a bike. The problem with e-bikes is that they make those fast speeds routine, and attainable in places where you wouldn't otherwise expect them (e.g., going up a hill). They break the expectations for speed and reaction times in places designed for pedestrians and human-powered bikes.

I'm all for people having easier access to the joys of getting around without a car. But sometimes I wonder if that accessibility makes it easy to bring car-like speeding mentality in places where it wasn't before.

Re: '70 MPH e-bikes' prompt one US state to change its laws

#50

Post by potato3732842 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #15
potato3732842 wrote: post #5

Going 30 on anything that resembles a bike in geometry and construction is not a leisurely activity one engages in casually. 40 is pushing it, 50 you know is unsafe. 70 is a publicity stunt in a controlled environment. Yes, I know road bikes (with or without electricity) hit high speeds in certain situations, but those situations are away from traffic or potential traffic, a big downhill in the middle of nowhere or a…

I think your argument works in a callous way if we ignore any speeds between 30 and 70 and we also ignore teenagers. But in reality there's a lot of untrained teens going different levels of too fast and that is something we should be trying to prevent.

Teenagers are gonna find a way to get dead at any/every speed. While something like 40-50 would be a wild speed to try to do on the potholed and crowded streets of NYC there are many rural roads as well as roads in more sprawled urban areas where being able to zip down the shoulder at such speeds where conditions permit is a worthwhile capability for the sake of both reducing travel times and speed differentials with automotive traffic.

That said, bicycle steering/suspension geometry is not made for that so it really is not the kind of capability a rider with any sense of self preservation will find themselves employing just anywhere.

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