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Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

science.org

51–60 of 325 posts

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#51
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, that's Hyrum's Law!

This is why I implemented private static readonly final sleep()

Sleep is still detectable via CPU load, so I added a thread that checks for load and runs some critical cleanup processes when it drops below a preset threshold.

Hope you don’t mind.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I implemented private static readonly final sleep()

Sleep is still detectable via CPU load, so I added a thread that checks for load and runs some critical cleanup processes when it drops below a preset threshold. Hope you don’t mind.

The obligatory related XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1172/

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#53
post #28
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI frenzy almost convinced me that sleep was the training of our neural network with all the prompts of the day. And now this /o\

Jesus christ, not even a biology thread is safe in the orange website.

Indeed. Animals without linguistic ability (like fruit flies) need sleep, but after ChatGPT's release in 2022, now tech bros think LLMs specifically might model the animal brain in general because of anthropocentrism and anthropomorphism.

It's also a fundamental misunderstanding of how LLMs work, mixing up inference with training.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#54
post #19
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would make sense if there was a monocausal explanation of why ancient ancestors started sleeping, but then other body functions started making use of the sleeping system since it was at hand.

Hey, that's Hyrum's Law!

Hyrum would be so proud!

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#55
"electrons flow through the respiratory chains of the respective feedback controllers like sand in the hourglass that determines when balance must be restored"

Wow, that is my new favorite sentence from any paper ever, replacing Mark Thomas' equally epic: "What it begins to suggest is that we’re looking at a Lord of the Rings-type world" from the legendary meeting at the Royal Society in London 2012/13.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2013.14196

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#56

How far away are we from making this a pill? So we can stay up 18 hours a day, or something. Any estimates. Any idea what foods or current methods, to trigger the same mechanism?

You mean operating on 6 hours of sleep? That doesn't seem that extreme. Perhaps less than ideal, but plenty of people seems to handle it fine.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#57
post #9
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the ancient mystery of why we need sleep might have just been answered. I would be very surprised if sleep would serve only one purpose. In complex interconnected systems you usually don't get far with monocausal explanations.

It would make sense if there was a monocausal explanation of why ancient ancestors started sleeping, but then other body functions started making use of the sleeping system since it was at hand.

> why ancient ancestors started sleeping

I tend to believe that our ancestors didn't start sleeping, they started waking up ! the default pattern is sleep and conservation of energy, but you need to wake up to expend more energy for a short period in order to feed yourself efficiently

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#58
I wonder how this relates to sleep apnea, as in that state you sleep more the less oxygen you get. By the way, many people who don't think they have it yet feel tired during the day or simply feel like they need more sleep should get tested for it, as it's not just a problem for the obese.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that sleep is controlled by mitochondria, but sleep is clearly involved in learning, and whatever algorithm for intelligence the brain does. Do those algorithms still work if you intervene at the level of the mitochondria? Or are the mitochondria just a good way of measuring elapsed time through energy expenditure? e.g. The algorithm needs a sleep phase to run roughly every x neural firings, or perfo…

That's a good point. Maybe we found the mechanism to stay awake, but if that doesn't also translate to normalizing everything else that happens while sleeping, then who knows. Maybe people turn into wide awake zombies after a few days.

I mean you can suppress sleep right now with coffee, adrenaline and mind-control and this is what it results in.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#60
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the ancient mystery of why we need sleep might have just been answered. I would be very surprised if sleep would serve only one purpose. In complex interconnected systems you usually don't get far with monocausal explanations.

TFA also acknowledges this: > There could well be many other functions that have since joined in with the sleep cycle (such as memory consolidation), but the authors hypothesize that mitochondrial function is the process that underlies all of them. If you need oxygen, then you need sleep!

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