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200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

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Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#181

Post by beAbU »

rob74 wrote: post #69

> A simple example: at night, a main road mainly displays green, the side streets only get green for a very short time. If you arrive with the app from a side street, you can get green immediately, provided there is no traffic on the main road. In Germany, there's an established but much more low tech approach to this problem: simply turn off the traffic lights at night! All traffic lights already have yield/stop/pri…

I remember learning in primary school about 25 years ago about this new-fangled technology where they embed sensors in the road surface that allows the traffic light to change its cycle based on the traffic patterns.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#182

Post by mike-cardwell »

bluecalm wrote: post #177
mike-cardwell wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when did cyclists take notice of traffic lights?

If you think cyclists break more traffic rule than drivers your view or reality is distorted. Try looking at the data and then around. You just notice them breaking the rules because they are different than you. It's a bias worth correcting.

Different than me? When I used to cycle, I skipped through traffic lights, when it seemed safe to, and I've seen many other cyclists do the same. It's not a bias, it's an observation. But I mainly said it as a joke, because it's a well known stereotype, for good reason. At least where I am.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#183

Post by toast0 »

throwawaylaptop wrote: post #167
ergsef wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My city has inductive bike sensors at specific intersections but many intersections (even ones with bike lanes) lack them. Cycling infrastructure is so half-assed in the US.

Cost per benefit? My friend is a commercial property guy and sometimes has to bring properties up to date for handicapped access. He jokes that with how few handicapped people use the features, he could probably give people $1k each as an apology for not being able to go into the building and be far ahead. I started thinking that for the most part most handicapped people would even take that deal. I think I would.

I don't think it costs that much more to use a D or Q pattern for the inductive loop instead of a circle for new loops. But, if the loops are already there, it is a lot of expense to put in new ones.

Adding a loop to bike lanes might be reasonable, or maybe it forces a controller upgrade and that's not reasonable... but if you make the lowest speed through lane and at least one of each protected turn lanes bike accessible (while otherwise doing loop work), that's good. I think the loops are pretty shallow, so if the road has significant rebuild/repair, it's time to address the loop design.

The key word for ADA is reasonable accomodation. It does add expense, and not every feature is used often, but it's 35 years since the ADA passed and the US is a lot more accessible now than it was in 1990. The window of reasonable changes over time too, of course.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#184

Post by Mawr »

Mawr wrote: post #179
gruez wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My experience as a cyclist contradicts that: many motorists will still (riskily) overtake you just to reach the red light sooner. Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them. ??? Seems like the far more plausible reason is that drivers don't want to be held up by a cyclist traveling at 10mph in front of them? Moreover if it's really true that lights only turn from red once a car reache…

> Seems like the far more plausible reason is that drivers don't want to be held up by a cyclist traveling at 10mph in front of them? Their reasoning is as follows: see cyclist -> cyclist always slow -> must always overtake cyclist Empirically, 99% of drivers act according to this simplistic model. They do not take the situation at hand into consideration at all, they simply always try to overtake cyclists. The speed…

Oops, I forgot something: This is all assuming good faith. Alternative scenario:

"How DARE that cyclist slow ME down! Get off the road!" -> punish pass / coal rolling on purpose

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#185

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

diggan wrote: post #154
whartung wrote: post #91

Late at night, at a friends house, and his car died, but I need a ride to my car. So, we took his motorcycle. We come up to a street light, and it's not sensing us. So, I hop off, run over, press the WALK button, and run back and hop back on. In moments, the light turns green, the WALK sign says WALK and we're on our way. Inevitably, a couple of blocks later, we're in the same boat. Being too clever by half, I rinse…

> So, I hop off, run over, press the WALK button [...] the light turns green, the WALK sign says WALK and we're on our way. You mean the button for pedestrians to pass the crosswalk I guess? Why would it say "WALK" (be green for pedestrians?) and also be green for a vehicle to pass? The crosswalks around me are the reverse, if pedestrians can pass, no vehicles can pass, and vice-versa. Or maybe I misunderstood someth…

Perestrians going in the same direction as traffic will generally get a walk signal when the traffic gets a green light.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#186

Post by lm28469 »

bluecalm wrote: post #176
toast0 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're using inductive vehicle detector loops in the pavement, those can be tuned to detect motorcycles and bicycles (probably not carbon fiber bikes though). Where I've seen and used loops tuned for bicycles, they have a different cut pattern and a painted bike to accent positions where the detector is likely to detect you... Sadly, they don't tend to have far back detectors (advance loops) tuned for bikes so an…

Definitely didn't work for my carbon bike. It's annoying because sometimes those are put in place on very minor - major road crossings and those are dangerous to cross on red light (and the minor roads are exactly the ones you want to be on the bike). I had 2 of those on my usual loop when I lived in Poland. Sometimes I just waited for a car but especially on weekends I needed to risk it and run the red light as othe…

> Definitely didn't work for my carbon bike

Didn't work for my 200kg metal motorcycle either most of the time.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#187

Post by lolc »

6510 wrote: post #89

I've been pondering this since the 90's. In my imagination the ultimate form is to have an auction with auto-bidding and minimum bids. If you haven't money you configure the app to collect only with a low minimum bid. When wealthy you have everyone wait for you. For example: From one direction 20 cars are approaching the crossing. Only 1 from the other direction. From the 20 car direction the highest minimum bid is 5…

Pay people to wait at intersections. What could go wrong?

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#188

Post by metalman »

these traffic apps would have a lot more uptake if the options included labeling and graphics like used in classic games ......" The spell of passage", and for observing varios trafic laws , earn points and free tolls for bridges and hyways or other ways to pay for permiting and licensing

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#189

Post by BrenBarn »

lmz wrote: post #21
BrenBarn wrote: post #5

I think it would actually be better if they refuse to integrate with the large apps, and instead use the green activation as a feature to entice people away from those apps.

If Google Maps had broadcast your individual(!) position and navigation intent to the local government people would scream about privacy. I'm not sure it's better when a local app does it.

I think I'd be more comfortable sharing my location with the Belgian government than with Google.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#190

Post by LtdJorge »

tzs wrote: post #131
LtdJorge wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone wants you to install their app these days. Install my app to turn on the lights, install the app to see the menu at a restaurant, install the app to read information about an archaeological site, install an app to open the automatic doors. As you said, it's 100% the wrong approach.

> Everyone wants you to install their app these days. Except that's not what they want here. What they want is for the apps that most people already use to add support for this.

I know, and it's frankly better. They didn't make an app, they made a protocol.
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