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‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

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Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#691

Post by 4gotunameagain »

YZF wrote: post #247
zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

I'm in the same camp tbh. I think Israel should not be putting all of Gaza under siege. It's not moral. This will also not work because the Hamas doesn't care about Gazans. It's also not helping Israel (other than some internal politics between Netanyahu and his right wing extremists). Totally agree on people need to be able to change their minds based on new data and as the situation changes. I'm personally constant…

You are framing it as if the problem is Hamas and the existence of Hamas.

Isn't the existence of Hamas only strengthened by the war, by the actions of Israel ?

I would argue that the October 7 attack was highly beneficial for the expansionist plans of Israel. Highly beneficial for Netanyahu, who now can stay in power under martial law instead of fearing prosecution for his previous crimes.

Hamas will not magically cease to exist when Palestinians are treated like that.

Imagine the amount of hate that is brewed against Israel again right now. Would you ever forget or forgive if as a child you were starved, and witnessed endless horrors ? Your city in shambles, rubble and blood everywhere, death and misery wherever you look at ?

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#692

Post by epolanski »

zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

Problem is, beyond voicing some disdain no country seems to be willing to do anything at all towards what is at this point a blatant genocide.

No sanctions, no political pressure, no stop to selling weapons. What is France doing, in practice, to help the situation?

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#693

Post by 4gotunameagain »

Jensson wrote: post #589
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has been an apartheid state for decades. This has nothing to do with Hamas. Anyone who is "changing their mind" now, hasn't - it's merely no longer socially acceptable to support naked indiscriminate brutality.

> Israel has been an apartheid state for decades Around 20% of Israelis are Muslims and they have full rights and get to vote, so no its not an apartheid state.

If you talk to any Muslim that lives in Israel (which I have), you will realise that they only have full rights in theory.

Arabs with Israeli passports are routinely searched and investigated by intelligence agencies, and in the occupied areas Arabs WITH Israeli passports are not allowed to visit certain areas (multiple sources online, including the recent Louis Theroux documentary). This is the very definition of an apartheid state.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#694

Post by hibikir »

mjevans wrote: post #423
carefulfungi wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what does winning actually look like today? Sure. Run against these people and support their political opposition in the next election. But take the win on the short term and get food to Gaza.

Think about it from a logical perspective. Israel's real enemy won't stop and won't surrender until that country and it's people don't exist. They have taken the innocent civilian's of Gaza / Palistine / whatever you want to call the area hostage. They are also so ingrained into the region that resources are literally siphoned from humanitarian sites like hospitals into deep tunnels beneath; as just one example of re…

There are subfactions, both among the Jewish and the Muslims, that do better if the problem isn't solved and goes on forever, but there is very little in-faction policing: If anything, atrocities make them stronger. There is no peace while the criticism to the other side quiet in-faction criticism. You need people that want peace to be in charge, but what leadership wants is victory. Nobody that believes in human rights is going to like the costs of victory

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#695

Post by geysersam »

orbisvicis wrote: post #433

What's everyone's thoughts on the GHF? They're the only way that food officially enters Gaza. IDF is not supposed to be immediately present at the distribution sites, and yet are shooting civilians. As are contractors hired by GHF. In fact there are cases of nationals joining IDF for the explicit purpose of shooting civilians, seemingly. There are movements to disband the GHF, but how else would Gazans eat?

> but how else would Gazans eat

Lets be entirely clear that the food crisis in Gaza is manufactured. There is enough food and medicines available and there are several organizations capable of dealing with the logistics of handling out the food, main one among them of course being UNWRA.

The only reason there is starvation in Gaza is because IDF is preventing aid from entering the territory and are refusing to let real humanitarian organizations work safely there.

So the answer to the question is: Israel must let food trucks into Gaza and let serious humanitarian organizations with decades of experience handle the logistics of handing out the food. About 150-200 trucks needs to enter Gaza per day, that's a lot of trucks to inspect thoroughly, but not nearly infeasible.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#696

Post by sorushn »

dismalaf wrote: post #79

Criticizing Israel is in vogue but what's the solution? Gazans still hold Israeli hostages, Hamas has publicly stated that more civilian deaths helps their cause [1], they're still fighting, the UN refused to distribute aid because they were getting attacked [2], and Israel unilaterally pulling out of Gaza and leaving them to govern themselves is literally what led to October 7th... 1 - https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/11…

Criticizing Nazi Germany was also "vogue" at some point and sympathisers of the third Reich had similar justifications for "self-defense" against Jews.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#697

Post by leptons »

fahhem wrote: post #581
dismalaf wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stop holding a people in a perpetual refugee camp and you might be surprised and how much less they fight you Israel completely pulled out of Gaza for nearly 20 years. Allowed them work permits in Israel, didn't control the border with Egypt, etc... Then October 7th happened...

Israel didn't pull out of Gaza, it simply moved its people to the border and continued its subjugation. They bombed Gaza's airport and implemented a land and sea blockade where they controlled everything that went in or out (to the point where they put the Palestinians on a diet with calorie counting at one point). That's not pulling out. The border with Egypt was controlled indirectly, Egypt is a puppet state of the…

>They bombed Gaza's airport and implemented a land and sea blockade where they controlled everything that went in or out

Israel blockades the ports and bombed the airport because missiles and weapons used to kill Israelis are shipped in at those places. These weapons in Gaza are not being used for defense. They are there to kill Israelis, period.

Weapons still get in, and then shit like Oct 7th happens - again, not in defense of Gaza, it was purely out of hatred of Israelis. Palestinians used to strap bombs to children and blew them up just to kill a few more Jews. Now they collect them and use them as human shields when they launch rocket attacks against Israel.

Yeah, the ports are blocked for good reason. Maybe Gazans could have tried diplomacy instead of terrorism, but they elected Hamas with a charter of exterminating Jews instead. I'm not sure how anyone could think that leads to prosperity - it leads directly to what's going on now.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#698

Post by 4gotunameagain »

sudopluto wrote: post #638
solidsnack9000 wrote: post #633

For everyone in this thread hoping for a "Marshall Plan" or other functional aid regime for Gaza, keep in mind that the Marshall Plan began with defeat . It was only with Germany's unconditional surrender that the Allies could establish security and make a plan for the future. Hamas has had many opportunities to surrender and hasn't taken them. Hitler had many opportunities, as well; but chose not to. Surrender was n…

one could argue, that with hamas de facto defeated and now rival gangs rising up to take power, israel could unilaterally ceasefire and hold elections for a new government to run the strip. hamas, if they pop up again, are disposed of with both domestic and IDF forces. the main problem is that doing so would probably result in the death of the hostages. hamas wants to stay in power, even if gaza is reduced to sand, t…

After all these atrocities, even with Hamas completely gone the hatred for Israel will remain. This war will not stop, only pause.

Imagine all the kids that are growing up in Gaza now, witnessing so much pain, misery and death. How on earth could they forgive Israel, especially as it continues to invade and occupy their territories ?

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#699

Post by freehorse »

zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

I would not talk about state leaders and governments as "changing their minds". Maybe they respond to pressure; maybe the state interests change. But whatever the case, what matters is actually stopping the genocide. If their "change in mind" helps that, that's enough for me right now.

However I would rather see and applaud actions than words. Words are easy. I can also do words, but a president or government have power. In the meantime, has anything changed in Israel being supplied weapons to commit said genocide? That matters more imo than what a president or prime minister says. Hopefully things go that direction and actions do follow.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#700

Post by epolanski »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #691
YZF wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the same camp tbh. I think Israel should not be putting all of Gaza under siege. It's not moral. This will also not work because the Hamas doesn't care about Gazans. It's also not helping Israel (other than some internal politics between Netanyahu and his right wing extremists). Totally agree on people need to be able to change their minds based on new data and as the situation changes. I'm personally constant…

You are framing it as if the problem is Hamas and the existence of Hamas. Isn't the existence of Hamas only strengthened by the war, by the actions of Israel ? I would argue that the October 7 attack was highly beneficial for the expansionist plans of Israel. Highly beneficial for Netanyahu, who now can stay in power under martial law instead of fearing prosecution for his previous crimes. Hamas will not magically ce…

Let's quote Netanyahu himself in 2019, at a party meeting:

> Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."

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