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200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

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Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#171

Post by K0balt »

phkahler wrote: post #71
rob74 wrote: post #69

> A simple example: at night, a main road mainly displays green, the side streets only get green for a very short time. If you arrive with the app from a side street, you can get green immediately, provided there is no traffic on the main road. In Germany, there's an established but much more low tech approach to this problem: simply turn off the traffic lights at night! All traffic lights already have yield/stop/pri…

I don't understand why they need apps for this either. The infrastructure should be in place to detect cars approaching from the side street. Once they have the ability to detect cars, it's simple to assume everyone would be requesting a green light.

I’m guessing that with location access they can probably do it without adding any infrastructure, just an API.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#172

Post by Too »

robocat wrote: post #159
fn-mote wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the reason is that neither Apple Maps nor Google Maps is willing to add the code to interface with the special Flemish Traffic Signal API. The market is too small, and there’s no profit to be made. Unlike the “you could take an Uber” ad in Google Maps.

Yes, but why do they want to be integrated with a maps App? If it can work as a background App then why not? And if you're in charge of the Google Maps App, you know you'll get blamed for draining the battery and transmitting location data continuously. It smells like someone in Belgium is lying or is looking for a scapegoat excuse. The reasoning just doesn't sound right, technically. Is there an international standa…

Because users don’t want to install apps that have access to gps in the background.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#173

Post by rob74 »

daveoc64 wrote: post #166
rob74 wrote: post #69

> A simple example: at night, a main road mainly displays green, the side streets only get green for a very short time. If you arrive with the app from a side street, you can get green immediately, provided there is no traffic on the main road. In Germany, there's an established but much more low tech approach to this problem: simply turn off the traffic lights at night! All traffic lights already have yield/stop/pri…

Are there still pedestrian crossings? That's often overlooked with ideas like this.

This is only done when traffic is light enough so you can normally cross without any danger. But now that you mention it, there is one of these lights nearby with buttons for pedestrians, next time I'm there after 8 pm I could check if it comes back to life when you press a button...

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#174

Post by rob74 »

psunavy03 wrote: post #147
hungmung wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America we have an even lower tech solution: if there's no traffic and nobody to see, you pretend the light is green.

In other parts of America there are these things called red-light cameras . . .

Or these people called policemen who will be overjoyed that you are making their boring night shift more interesting, not to mention rewarding. I only got ticketed by police twice in my entire life, and one of those times was when I ignored a red light (on a bicycle!) in the late evening at a big but completely deserted intersection. Then I learned that in Germany cyclists have to pay the same fine as motorists (100 € + processing fee + 1 "penalty point" on your driver's license if you have one, even if you're not driving a car), while pedestrians only pay 10 €.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#175

Post by phkahler »

bluecalm wrote: post #75
phkahler wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why they need apps for this either. The infrastructure should be in place to detect cars approaching from the side street. Once they have the ability to detect cars, it's simple to assume everyone would be requesting a green light.

We have those in Poland. Sucks if you are on a bike. You need to wait for a car to turn it green for you.

So they assume perfect vehicle detection? Sensors should be used to speed up a regular cycle. They should not be the only thing changing a light.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#176

Post by bluecalm »

toast0 wrote: post #118
bluecalm wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have those in Poland. Sucks if you are on a bike. You need to wait for a car to turn it green for you.

If they're using inductive vehicle detector loops in the pavement, those can be tuned to detect motorcycles and bicycles (probably not carbon fiber bikes though). Where I've seen and used loops tuned for bicycles, they have a different cut pattern and a painted bike to accent positions where the detector is likely to detect you... Sadly, they don't tend to have far back detectors (advance loops) tuned for bikes so an…

Definitely didn't work for my carbon bike. It's annoying because sometimes those are put in place on very minor - major road crossings and those are dangerous to cross on red light (and the minor roads are exactly the ones you want to be on the bike). I had 2 of those on my usual loop when I lived in Poland. Sometimes I just waited for a car but especially on weekends I needed to risk it and run the red light as otherwise I would be stuck there for a few hours.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#177

Post by bluecalm »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #128
bluecalm wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have those in Poland. Sucks if you are on a bike. You need to wait for a car to turn it green for you.

Since when did cyclists take notice of traffic lights?

If you think cyclists break more traffic rule than drivers your view or reality is distorted. Try looking at the data and then around. You just notice them breaking the rules because they are different than you. It's a bias worth correcting.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#178

Post by Tade0 »

bluecalm wrote: post #177
mike-cardwell wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when did cyclists take notice of traffic lights?

If you think cyclists break more traffic rule than drivers your view or reality is distorted. Try looking at the data and then around. You just notice them breaking the rules because they are different than you. It's a bias worth correcting.

I notice them when I cycle. Most common infraction, which I can't understand due to the sheer danger, is running red lights. Wouldn't occur to me in a car, much less in a smaller vehicle.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#179

Post by Mawr »

gruez wrote: post #90
rob74 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience as a cyclist contradicts that: many motorists will still (riskily) overtake you just to reach the red light sooner. Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them. See also: people passing by you on a multi-lane highway and then promptly slowing down once they have returned to your lane...

>My experience as a cyclist contradicts that: many motorists will still (riskily) overtake you just to reach the red light sooner. Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them. ??? Seems like the far more plausible reason is that drivers don't want to be held up by a cyclist traveling at 10mph in front of them? Moreover if it's really true that lights only turn from red once a car reache…

> Seems like the far more plausible reason is that drivers don't want to be held up by a cyclist traveling at 10mph in front of them?

Their reasoning is as follows:

see cyclist -> cyclist always slow -> must always overtake cyclist

Empirically, 99% of drivers act according to this simplistic model. They do not take the situation at hand into consideration at all, they simply always try to overtake cyclists.

The speed the cyclist is going at doesn't matter, the upcoming intersection/roundabout/traffic jam does not matter, the minimum legal (and safe!) distance from the cyclist while overtaking does not matter.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#180

Post by ztetranz »

holowoodman wrote: post #43
antonvs wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> simpler traffic density sensors …which in practice tend to be more expensive to implement and maintain. Systems like this one can work because they take advantage of highly available commodity infrastructure.

In the most cases, you should imho skip the traffic lights all together and use a roundabout. Automatically balancing, can work to large capacities (not as large as traffic lights, but visit France if you need to see how much traffic they can handle). No fragile electronics, no power consumption, less maintenance, less accident-prone (really!).

Yes roundabouts generally work well despite the fact that many American drivers seem to have problems with them.

There are some traffic patterns where roundabouts don't do well. I've seen the following. Imagine a four way roundabout with north, east, south and west. Predominate rush hour traffic is towards the east. Heavy traffic entering from north. More entering from west. Most exiting at east with very little going around beyond west. Entering from south can be nearly impossible since they're waiting for a break from both north and west.

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