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Danish Study: No link between vaccines and autism or other health conditions

en.ssi.dk

11–20 of 140 posts

Re: Danish Study: No link between vaccines and autism or other health conditions

#11
Makes sense, hopefully it convinces enough parents not to listen to idiots.

But I have to wonder if any researcher will be able to publish a study that has a hint of the opposite conclusion?

Academia is not kind to anyone going against the flow. (I am a bona fide scientist, not a do-your-own-research conspiracy theorist...)

Re: Danish Study: No link between vaccines and autism or other health conditions

#12
I'm curious: did it ever become typical for these studies to publish the data and code? I haven't kept current, but I remember having read studies in times past and they definitely didn't. Not necessarily referring to this or vaccines, just like "hey we did this analysis" but they don't publish the code and data, when we have an ongoing replication crisis in science.

Re: Danish Study: No link between vaccines and autism or other health conditions

#13

I wonder how the Danish vaccine schedule compares to the US, vis a vis total aluminum content.

Don’t know but I’d highly doubt it’s relevant.

> The aluminum contained in vaccines is similar to that found in a liter (about 1 quart or 32 fluid ounces) of infant formula. While infants receive about 4.4 milligrams* of aluminum in the first six months of life from vaccines, they receive more than that in their diet. Breast-fed infants ingest about 7 milligrams, formula-fed infants ingest about 38 milligrams, and infants who are fed soy formula ingest almost 117 milligrams of aluminum during the first six months of life.

https://www.chop.edu/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety...

Re: Danish Study: No link between vaccines and autism or other health conditions

#14
post #2

The truly sad part is that regardless of the validity of the study, its methodology, or the results, the impact it will have in the political sphere or with the public will be negligible. It's maddening.

We'll be lucky if the impact is negligible. It will probably reinforce the idea that vaccines case autism with those who believe it already.

Re: Danish Study: No link between vaccines and autism or other health conditions

#15
post #2

The truly sad part is that regardless of the validity of the study, its methodology, or the results, the impact it will have in the political sphere or with the public will be negligible. It's maddening.

Most people lack the ability to understand inferences drawn from mathematical analysis. It’s not just vaccines, it’s numeric or logical reasoning of all kinds. If you can’t explain why something is true in non-abstract terms, you can just forget it. And it’s true even for somewhat smarter than average people: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/msnbc-bloo....

I’ve become persuaded that for democracy to work successfully, you need to socialize people from birth so their gut feelings are directionally correct. And you need to cultivate trust in certain institutions, in particular public health, by targeting every segment of society on their own terms and jealously guarding the institution’s credibility.

My dad worked on maternal health programs in Bangladesh. They’d build hospitals, but women in the villages wouldn’t use them. Turns out they didn’t trust the doctors, they trusted the village midwives and traditional healers. So my dad proposed to network with the midwives to establish reciprocal trust. This worked because it reflected how human trust networks operate. Public health in a developed country shouldn’t work any differently (and certainly shouldn’t work the way it does now in the U.S.).

Re: Danish Study: No link between vaccines and autism or other health conditions

#16
post #2

The truly sad part is that regardless of the validity of the study, its methodology, or the results, the impact it will have in the political sphere or with the public will be negligible. It's maddening.

Strong vaccine supporter here, and I think studies like this are still worth doing. Healthy society has vocal skeptics that are occasionally correct. We also have authorities that are occasionally wrong. Scientists maintain trust in our most important systems by properly addressing claims through rigorous research rather than relying simply on authority. We’ve seen smoking and thalidomide (and I’m sure more relevant substances) scientifically ‘proven’ safe before causing massive harm. When anti-vaxx claims evolve (MMR, now aluminum), having solid population data helps counter misinformation with hard evidence. Active research helps us know which side the misinformation is actually on.

Re: Danish Study: No link between vaccines and autism or other health conditions

#17
post #8

Just a friendly reminder for any who need to hear it again: it's really okay to have been wrong and okay to admit that you've been being lied to. Changing your views when confronted with new evidence that shows your beliefs/assumptions were incorrect is a sign of intelligence. It can also let you focus more of your attention on new topics/areas that are still important for protecting yourself and your loved ones.

I wonder how many people on HN believe stuff like this though. Not that many?

I'm open to being wrong on that guess.

Re: Danish Study: No link between vaccines and autism or other health conditions

#18
post #11

Makes sense, hopefully it convinces enough parents not to listen to idiots. But I have to wonder if any researcher will be able to publish a study that has a hint of the opposite conclusion? Academia is not kind to anyone going against the flow. (I am a bona fide scientist, not a do-your-own-research conspiracy theorist...)

In the context of vaccines, I think there's enough political tension it would immediately gain traction regardless of scientific rigor or correctness

Re: Danish Study: No link between vaccines and autism or other health conditions

#19

I wonder how the Danish vaccine schedule compares to the US, vis a vis total aluminum content.

You can check the figures yourself: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/ANNALS-25-00997

Thanks to a long term study over a changing schedule they were able to layer the subjects by cumulative aluminum exposure from vaccination with aluminum-adsorbed vaccines.

No adverse associations were found, from low to high levels.

This was a study on humans, not mice, and to the best of my reading neither Tomljenovic nor Shaw were involved here.

Re: Danish Study: No link between vaccines and autism or other health conditions

#20
post #2

The truly sad part is that regardless of the validity of the study, its methodology, or the results, the impact it will have in the political sphere or with the public will be negligible. It's maddening.

To preface this, I'm not saying anything about vaccines, efficacy, safety, or my positions on them.

But how can you expect to convince doubters when a claim like "no link between vaccines and autism" is made, and all you have to do is click your left mouse button twice to pull up the actual research, and see that what was actually studied was "did a certain amount of increase in aluminum content in vaccines create more negative health effects than the vaccines with the previous aluminum content?". That's what was studied here, that is the source for this article.

Yes, these things are related, but intentionally removing that context and misrepresenting the actual result does not convince people to believe you, it just drives them further away. It's so easy for a reader to see for themselves that the claim that's being made in this case is not remotely what the source research is actually claiming. How does that increase trust?

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