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‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

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Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#311

Post by geysersam »

churchill wrote: post #3

Does anyone still need testimonies like these to be convinced that Israel is systematically exterminating the Palestinians using kinetic force and starvation? We're past that point now. Making Gaza unlivable by carpet-bombing the strip, telegraphing mass murder in unambiguous statements at the highest levels of government, dehumanizing the Palestinians and silencing anyone who dares to speak up? I, for one, am thankf…

> And this has eliminated the whole Western bullshit about human rights maximalism

That's the truth. "Never again". Clearly our politicians do not believe in human rights or international law. What do they believe in? Democracy? I doubt it. Money? Western exceptionalism? More likely. Where do we go from here? Why would anyone ever take any moral argument from a western nation seriously ever again?

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#312

Post by tbrownaw »

unclad5968 wrote: post #206
crystal_revenge wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a divisive and emotional topic. I strongly suspect that this "divisive" nature of the topic is precisely the illusion being created. That's exactly what I am challenging here. In my non-online life I've known many vaccine skeptics, climate skeptics, crypto enthusiasts, extreme right/left-wingers, people with complex view of trans issues, divisions on BLM topics, gun fanatics, gun abolitionists etc, etc. But the opi…

It's just your social circle. Where I live (still USA) it's the opposite. I don't know a single person who doesn't think the Palestinian support isn't propaganda. It is for sure a controversial topic.

That is "I don't know a single person who thinks it is propaganda", or equivalently "everyone I know thinks it's real", yes? Triple negatives can be a pain to keep track of.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#314

Post by HamsterDan »

elihu wrote: post #244
YZF wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasbara means explaining in Hebrew. So guilty as charged of trying to explain what's going on. I'm not echoing any sort of official message. What people here don't understand is that there is a war going on. In wars people get killed. The war and the condition of the Palestinian population is 100% the responsibility of their government, Hamas, that continues fighting and holding Israeli hostages. Israel can not and w…

> "The war and the condition of the Palestinian population is 100% the responsibility of their government, Hamas, that continues fighting and holding Israeli hostages." No. Israel is an occupying power, and they're heavily restricting food and aid to civilians. Collective punishment is prohibited by article 33 of the 4th Geneva convention. Starvation as a method of war is prohibited by article 54 of the additional pr…

Restricting food to civilians has been a legitimate war tactic forever. It's called a siege. If this is unacceptable to Palestine, they need to return the Israeli hostages.

Israel is under no obligation to provide aid to their opponent in a war. Anybody suggesting such is transparently anti-Semitic. Nobody would ever make such a ridiculous claim if it were their own countrymen held hostage.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#315

Post by kristopolous »

tim333 wrote: post #233
zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

Pretty much my take. I thought Israel's actions were reasonable at first but out of hand now.

Historically, any nationalist project on behalf of any group requiring large migration for it to work led to a removal and replacement of some group with another. United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, failed ones like Rhodesia...there's really no counter-example I can think of.

Regardless of where you land, I don't think anyone can look at what's going on in the middle east and think things are going fine - or ever were.

Perhaps, if we ever decide to act globally, we shouldn't permit any more migratory nationalist projects - they seem to be inherently problematic.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#316

Post by School-Cotton »

zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

Yep. "Always give your opponent a path to retreat".

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#317

Post by 7402 »

mrs6969 wrote: post #250
slibhb wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palestinians have been offered a state 5 times starting in 1937. They rejected each offer. They don't want a state of their own; they want to conquer Israel. I don't see a solution. Maybe establish a somewhat repressive non-democratic Palestinian state?

no one really believes such stuff anymore. Israel really the invader according to UN and many other organization. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Counci... and many other examples of how israel really ignored the internatinal law, the agreements it signed etc.

Um. The UN approved the original 1947 Partition Plan, which called for a Jewish State and an Arab state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_...

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#318

Post by danbruc »

slibhb wrote: post #249
danbruc wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is simply not true, there was never any offer with acceptable terms. I am not going to repeat this here, this has been discussed countless times and you can easily find this if you want to.

All of the offers seem acceptable to me. In the first offer, the Jewish state was quite small. None of the offers were acceptable to Palestinians because they include a Jewish state. Virtually all Arabs want to fight a war against Israel and destroy it. They view that land as theirs. The only reason there haven't been more wars is due to repressive Arab governments that have been willing to compromise.

This is nonsense, the Palestinians and Palestinian organizations - even including Hamas - have to varying degrees accepted or shown willingness to accept a Palestinian state that does not encompass all of Mandatory Palestine. Israel is unwilling to have a two state solution, they always desired all of Mandatory Palestine and saw any division plan only as stepping stone for further expansion in the future.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#319

Post by School-Cotton »

tim333 wrote: post #233
zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

Pretty much my take. I thought Israel's actions were reasonable at first but out of hand now.

Israel has been blockading the Gaza Strip by air and sea for 18 years. The Gaza Strip is, as far as I know, the only place in the world whose fishermen can't fish in the full extent of its territorial waters. This has been true since way before Oct. 7th 2023.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#320

Post by fn-mote »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #260
zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

It's good to be honest about all the horrors going on in the world, not just when they're committed by jewish people (I'm not jewish btw). For example there are recents vids of syrian muslims going door to door in villages in Syria and asking people if they are muslims or of the Druze faith: those answering they're from the Druze faith are shot on the spot. This qualify as war crimes too to me. But you don't get to r…

On one hand, I agree that honesty is important.

On the other hand, this seems like whataboutism instead of honestly facing the truth.

> not just when they're committed by jewish people

Really skeptical that’s the filter that’s being applied here.

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