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‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

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Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#231

Post by elihu »

churchill wrote: post #3

Does anyone still need testimonies like these to be convinced that Israel is systematically exterminating the Palestinians using kinetic force and starvation? We're past that point now. Making Gaza unlivable by carpet-bombing the strip, telegraphing mass murder in unambiguous statements at the highest levels of government, dehumanizing the Palestinians and silencing anyone who dares to speak up? I, for one, am thankf…

I think the thing that should have been a clear unambiguous sign (if nothing up to then were convincing enough) that Israel's intentions weren't just to defeat Hamas but cause severe harm to the civilian population of Gaza was when they blocked all food and aid into Gaza for months. I mean, why would you do that unless you want people to die?

Even the stated explanation that they wanted to deprive Hamas of the ability to fundraise by stealing food and selling it back didn't make sense. Food shortages would cause the market value of hoarded food to rise, thus helping Hamas. Flooding the region with food would collapse the prices and deprive them of a revenue stream.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#232

Post by danbruc »

slibhb wrote: post #222
danbruc wrote: post #202

»If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?« David Ben-Gurion, First Prim…

Palestinians have been offered a state 5 times starting in 1937. They rejected each offer. They don't want a state of their own; they want to conquer Israel. I don't see a solution. Maybe establish a somewhat repressive non-democratic Palestinian state?

This is simply not true, there was never any offer with acceptable terms. I am not going to repeat this here, this has been discussed countless times and you can easily find this if you want to.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#233

Post by tim333 »

zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

Pretty much my take. I thought Israel's actions were reasonable at first but out of hand now.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#234

Post by thoroughburro »

unclad5968 wrote: post #206
crystal_revenge wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a divisive and emotional topic. I strongly suspect that this "divisive" nature of the topic is precisely the illusion being created. That's exactly what I am challenging here. In my non-online life I've known many vaccine skeptics, climate skeptics, crypto enthusiasts, extreme right/left-wingers, people with complex view of trans issues, divisions on BLM topics, gun fanatics, gun abolitionists etc, etc. But the opi…

It's just your social circle. Where I live (still USA) it's the opposite. I don't know a single person who doesn't think the Palestinian support isn't propaganda. It is for sure a controversial topic.

Also my social circle.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#235

Post by pfannkuchen »

churchill wrote: post #3

Does anyone still need testimonies like these to be convinced that Israel is systematically exterminating the Palestinians using kinetic force and starvation? We're past that point now. Making Gaza unlivable by carpet-bombing the strip, telegraphing mass murder in unambiguous statements at the highest levels of government, dehumanizing the Palestinians and silencing anyone who dares to speak up? I, for one, am thankf…

Nit: Congo free state and Scramble for Africa were pretty different as I believe most Europeans didn’t realize and/or accept that sub Saharan Africans are humans at that point. They had an extremely different exposure to them (level and type) than we have today, and I don’t think we today can say whether we would have reacted differently to the Africans immediately post mass scale contact.

Do people in the west today consciously consider Palestinians to be subhuman? I don’t think so? So this today is like much much worse actually IMO from a moral defensibility standpoint.

This is orthogonal to your point, I agree with your point.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#239

Post by kn0where »

zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

It’s fine to accept your mom or your neighbor changing their mind, but I think we should be skeptical of politicians changing their mind and consider what hidden, calculated motives they may have for changing it now, when they had plenty of information to reach the same conclusion over a year ago.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#240

Post by tim333 »

churchill wrote: post #3

Does anyone still need testimonies like these to be convinced that Israel is systematically exterminating the Palestinians using kinetic force and starvation? We're past that point now. Making Gaza unlivable by carpet-bombing the strip, telegraphing mass murder in unambiguous statements at the highest levels of government, dehumanizing the Palestinians and silencing anyone who dares to speak up? I, for one, am thankf…

I mostly agree except the "no political system can survive disillusion" bit. In most of the examples you give the political system survived.
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