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‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

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Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#161
post #115
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfortunate and notable that whenever Israel hits the front page of HN and avoids getting flagged, the perspective is reliably anti-Israel. It's worth recalling that confirmation bias, which we’re all prone to, kicks in hard on this topic. We are all subject to the tendency to notice and remember things that back up what we already believe, while tuning out anything that contradicts it. With Israel, that often m…

Have you considered that your framing exposes implicit bias? It breaks posts down in a binary (pro- or anti-Israel) formation. It’s not that simple. One can be deeply sympathetic to the millenia-long suffering of the Jewish people and even want them to have a homeland, and yet believe that Israelis are largely unconcerned with the welfare of Palestinian civilians. It’s also reasonable at this point to believe that Is…

You are arguing for confirmation bias, unfortunately. It costs you nothing to understand Israeli perspectives. You don't have to agree, but you will elevate the discourse.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#162
post #156

The UN definition is quoted here: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: - Killing members of the group; - Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; - Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction…

Israel is not an occupying power in Gaza, but rather a warring power. And Article 23 of the 4th Geneva Convention says:

".... are no serious reasons for fearing:

(a) that the consignments may be diverted from their destination,"

i.e. if the warring party believes the supplies will be diverted they have no obligation to supply them.

And that's what is going on here.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#163
post #72

As someone who went to US high school in the 90s, a good 1/3 of our curriculum seemed to be "never again" studies of the holocaust and other genocides throughout history. Which makes it completely incomprehensible to me that suddenly "don't talk about genocide" has become the basically law. What's worse is I actually feel openly saying "I don't support this genocide and I'm critical of the state committing it" is a r…

For progressive, educated people, Holocaust education was a double-edged sword. It made us keenly aware that the belief in the need for the existence of a Jewish state came from centuries of European Christian anti-Semitism culminating in the Holocaust. Therefore, when Israel justified its actions as defense against an existential threat, I think Europeans and American descendants of Europeans felt very nervous about…

[flagged]

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#164
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There would be less scepticism if there weren't numerous examples of falsified incidents in the past. Nonetheless, the point of "the boy who cried wolf" is not "wolves don't exist". Both sides have been caught lying many, many times but that doesn't mean you can just dismiss every claim.

Targeting and detaining fewer journalists from reputable independent organizations would go a long way in reforging the foreign relations Likud has insisted on burning.

https://gulfnews.com/uae/israel-detains-second-reuters-journ...

https://www.tag24.com/topic/israel-war/american-journalist-j...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/haaretz-photogr...

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-07-11/ty-article/ha...

https://truthout.org/articles/israeli-police-detain-palestin...

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#165
post #12

Three words - Boycott, Divest, Sanction. If BDS didn't work, they wouldn't be trying to ban it.

I agree with the means, one has to but economic pressure on Israel, but the BDS movement holds some non-viable positions.

Like what? (Honest question).

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#167
post #162
post #156

The UN definition is quoted here: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: - Killing members of the group; - Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; - Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction…

Israel is not an occupying power in Gaza, but rather a warring power. And Article 23 of the 4th Geneva Convention says: ".... are no serious reasons for fearing: (a) that the consignments may be diverted from their destination," i.e. if the warring party believes the supplies will be diverted they have no obligation to supply them. And that's what is going on here.

Diverted to where? It is one city.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#168
post #28

As someone who went to US high school in the 90s, a good 1/3 of our curriculum seemed to be "never again" studies of the holocaust and other genocides throughout history. Which makes it completely incomprehensible to me that suddenly "don't talk about genocide" has become the basically law. What's worse is I actually feel openly saying "I don't support this genocide and I'm critical of the state committing it" is a r…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#169
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For progressive, educated people, Holocaust education was a double-edged sword. It made us keenly aware that the belief in the need for the existence of a Jewish state came from centuries of European Christian anti-Semitism culminating in the Holocaust. Therefore, when Israel justified its actions as defense against an existential threat, I think Europeans and American descendants of Europeans felt very nervous about…

For a while people would label arguments against Israel as being against the Jewish people or the Jewish faith. That is, decrying how Gaza and the West Bank were formed were seen as anti-semitic arguments. It was essentially an argument that Israel is Judaism. Whereas mature people can usually argue against a behavior without arguing against a person or a group of people.

In so weaponizing "antisemitism" through unethical and immoral political attacks, it increases actual antisemitism and makes the term lose its importance. Meanwhile, 20k Hasidic Jews met in an arena in NYC to denounce what Israel was doing and that they don't speak for them. The sheer arrogance of a secular political regime claiming to speak for an entire people whom aren't citizens of their country and never agreed to this association.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#170
post #48

As someone who went to US high school in the 90s, a good 1/3 of our curriculum seemed to be "never again" studies of the holocaust and other genocides throughout history. Which makes it completely incomprehensible to me that suddenly "don't talk about genocide" has become the basically law. What's worse is I actually feel openly saying "I don't support this genocide and I'm critical of the state committing it" is a r…

> The downvotes and flagged comments in this post are clearly not "organic" FWIW the downvotes and flags in threads like this, including this thread, do seem largely organic to me, and well within the range of what one expects from a divisive and emotional topic. People often use words like "clearly" in making such descriptions (I don't mean to pick on you personally! countless users do this, from all sides of all is…

> a divisive and emotional topic.

I strongly suspect that this "divisive" nature of the topic is precisely the illusion being created. That's exactly what I am challenging here.

In my non-online life I've known many vaccine skeptics, climate skeptics, crypto enthusiasts, extreme right/left-wingers, people with complex view of trans issues, divisions on BLM topics, gun fanatics, gun abolitionists etc, etc.

But the opinion around what's happening in Gaza right now doesn't fit into this category. Regardless of political opinion, outside of Zionists, I have not met anyone who will not, in private of course (for the reasons mentioned previously), agree that what's happening in Gaza is genocide and is not in the interests of the United States. The strength of the opinion can vary, but the general direction of opinion is consistent.

Another reason I added "clearly" is because, compared to say climate change posts that are often filled with climate denial comments, there are typically very few commenters engaging in any controversial discussions. Nearly all the top level comments are in agreement, the majority of the replies are as well. Compared to genuinely controversial topics which often do quickly devolve into impossible arguments.

There's also the broader issue that silence is not always a neutral position. When one side benefits much, much more from silence than the other, you can't simply shrug your shoulders and say "well it's controversial so let's not talk about it". In this case, silencing conversations about the genocide in Gaza is very beneficial to the state perpetuating this genocide and likewise very harmful to the people suffering from it.

The strategy is simple: make the topic appear to be more divisive than it is, which makes it easy to silence as "divisive and emotional", which is essentially the most desirable outcome.

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