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Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

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Re: Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

#341

Post by jodrellblank »

inetknght wrote: post #285
jodrellblank wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PowerShell team at Microsoft added opt-out telemetry to track when it was launched so they could make the case internally that they should get more funding, and have more internal clout. It’s easy to argue that if you are a PowerShell user or developer you benefit from no telemetry, but it’s hard to argue that you benefit from the tool you use being sidelined or defunded because corporate thinks nobody uses it. “…

> it’s hard to argue that you benefit from the tool you use being sidelined or defunded because corporate thinks nobody uses it. Let the corporation suffer then. With an open API, a third party will make a better one. Microsoft can buy that; corporations have a habit of doing that. > “Talk to your users” doesn’t solve this because there are millions of computers running scripts Why are you worried about the problems…

> "use something better. Like bash."

Bash isn't better.

> "Why are you worried about the problems that scripts face? Why do they matter to you?"

because I write and run such scripts.

> "Let the corporation suffer then"

Microsoft wouldn't suffer, PowerShell users would suffer.

> "sometimes that might mean filing a bug report... or a feature request for better documentation. "

In this scenario the PowerShell team has been defunded or sacked. Who will the bug report go to? Who will implement the feature request?

> "If your users aren't interacting with you for feature requests and bug reports, then either you don't have users or you don't have good enough reachability from the users to you."

Users are interacting with Microsoft for feature requests and bug reports. There are a thousand open issues on https://github.com/powershell/powershell/ and many more which were closed "due to inactivity". What difference does that make if Corporate doesn't want to fund a bigger team to fix more bugs unless it can be shown to benefit a lot of customers not just "a few" devs who raise issues?

Re: Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

#342

Post by bangaladore »

jamespo wrote: post #179
bangaladore wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until everything starts using DoH (DNS over HTTPS). There is pretty much no reason to use anything else as a consumer nowadays. In fact, most web browsers are using DoH, so pihole is useless in that regard.

You can disable that

Sure, but the industry is moving in that direction so prepare for the uphill battle.

Re: Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

#343

Post by jodrellblank »

Eisenstein wrote: post #260
jodrellblank wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PowerShell team at Microsoft added opt-out telemetry to track when it was launched so they could make the case internally that they should get more funding, and have more internal clout. It’s easy to argue that if you are a PowerShell user or developer you benefit from no telemetry, but it’s hard to argue that you benefit from the tool you use being sidelined or defunded because corporate thinks nobody uses it. “…

To take that logic to its extreme: I'm sure we could have amazing medical breakthroughs if we just gave up that pesky 'don't experiment on non-consenting humans' hang-up we have.

The parent said "talk to your users instead of telemetry" and I said "there are scenarios where telemetry can get information that you cannot get by talking to users". How did you go from that to "experimenting on non-consenting humans"?

To take your logic to its extreme, you have a disease and are prescribed pills, and the pharmaceutical company says "we will track when you take the pills - unless you don't want us to?" and you would prefer the researchers get shut down for not knowing whether anyone actually takes the pills, and an unlimited number of people die from treatable diseases that don't get cured.

Re: Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

#344

Post by inetknght »

jodrellblank wrote: post #341
inetknght wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s hard to argue that you benefit from the tool you use being sidelined or defunded because corporate thinks nobody uses it. Let the corporation suffer then. With an open API, a third party will make a better one. Microsoft can buy that; corporations have a habit of doing that. > “Talk to your users” doesn’t solve this because there are millions of computers running scripts Why are you worried about the problems…

> "use something better. Like bash." Bash isn't better. > "Why are you worried about the problems that scripts face? Why do they matter to you?" because I write and run such scripts. > "Let the corporation suffer then" Microsoft wouldn't suffer, PowerShell users would suffer. > "sometimes that might mean filing a bug report... or a feature request for better documentation. " In this scenario the PowerShell team has b…

> Bash isn't better.

It is, by virtue of running on Linux.

> because I write and run such scripts.

'kay. Learn how to do Engineering and the software will come just fine. You don't need telemetry to tell you anything about scripts. You need good error reports for your users to send to you instead.

> Microsoft wouldn't suffer, PowerShell users would suffer.

So what you're saying is that Microsoft doesn't care about its users. PowerShell users should use products from better companies then.

> In this scenario the PowerShell team has been defunded or sacked. Who will the bug report go to? Who will implement the feature request?

Why were they sacked?

Oh, right, because they didn't interact with their users.

Who will the bug report go to? Clearly it's the same as before: nobody. That's a Microsoft problem.

> What difference does that make if Corporate doesn't want to fund a bigger team to fix more bugs unless it can be shown to benefit a lot of customers not just "a few" devs who raise issues?

If Corporate doesn't want to fund bugfixes and features for people who actually file bug reports and talk to you, then that's poor behavior of corporate. Why do you want to contribute to the decline of your users privacy?

Re: Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

#345

Post by inetknght »

jodrellblank wrote: post #343
Eisenstein wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To take that logic to its extreme: I'm sure we could have amazing medical breakthroughs if we just gave up that pesky 'don't experiment on non-consenting humans' hang-up we have.

The parent said "talk to your users instead of telemetry" and I said "there are scenarios where telemetry can get information that you cannot get by talking to users". How did you go from that to "experimenting on non-consenting humans"? To take your logic to its extreme, you have a disease and are prescribed pills, and the pharmaceutical company says "we will track when you take the pills - unless you don't want us…

> I don't understand how you got from "there are scenarios where telemetry can get information that you cannot get by talking to users, here is one example" to "experimenting on non-consenting humans". What is the connection?

The connection is clear if your salary doesn't require you to not understand it.

Developers don't opt-in to telemetry? Maybe it's because they don't want to enable that telemetry, your experiments be damned.

Use proper engineering to demonstrate that your scripts work instead of demanding that users be your free software test team.

Re: Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

#346

Post by chatmasta »

bobajeff wrote: post #201
barkingcat wrote: post #105

There's also the Eclipse VScode-look-alike-reimplementation called TheiaIDE https://theia-ide.org/ It was rough a few years ago, but nowadays it's pretty nice. TI rebuilt their Code Composer Studio using Theia so it does have some larger users. It has LSP support and the same Monaco editor backend - which is all I need. It's VSCode-with-an-Eclipse-feel to it - which might or might not be your cup of tea, but it's an…

The feature that keeps me from moving off of vscode is their markdown support. In particular the ability to drag and drop to insert links to files and images *. Surprisingly, no other editor does this even though I use it all the time. * https://code.visualstudio.com/Docs/languages/markdown#_inser...

Obsidian supports this. (Or at least, it supports pasting an image from clapboard so I’m assuming drag and drop works too.)

Re: Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

#347

Post by ddd34drf3 »

muppetman wrote: post #147
isatty wrote: post #99

Why do people use obvious spyware when free software exists?

Well there's a middle ground - Sublime Text isn't free but it's fantastic and isn't sending back all my code/work to the Chinese Government. Sorry, "Telemetry"

Another middle ground is CudaText, it is free and without telemetry.

Re: Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

#348

Post by alyandon »

ozim wrote: post #300
jodrellblank wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://dendron.so/ is more or less Obsidian in VSCode, and free and open source.

But Dendron is a zombie project. I don’t mind project being done and in maintenance mode. But I am not investing my time into starting using it. Getting started page has screenshots broken on AWS.

I took the plunge and don't regret it. Despite the condition of the web site the extension is very useful and relatively free of any annoying bugs.

At some point in time, I'd like to take the time to invest building a custom version of the extension to bump dependencies to access more modern support for plantuml/mermaid diagrams.

Re: Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

#349

Post by Eisenstein »

jodrellblank wrote: post #343
Eisenstein wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To take that logic to its extreme: I'm sure we could have amazing medical breakthroughs if we just gave up that pesky 'don't experiment on non-consenting humans' hang-up we have.

The parent said "talk to your users instead of telemetry" and I said "there are scenarios where telemetry can get information that you cannot get by talking to users". How did you go from that to "experimenting on non-consenting humans"? To take your logic to its extreme, you have a disease and are prescribed pills, and the pharmaceutical company says "we will track when you take the pills - unless you don't want us…

You said 'but we wouldn't have a lot of improvement without telemetry'. I am saying that we could have a lot of improvement in a lot of things if we wanted. We could have breakthroughs in medicine if we allowed human experimentation. The question is, where is that that line? Your argument doesn't address that, it just tries to justify something that people think it morally wrong by stating that we get use from it.

Re: Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

#350

Post by jodrellblank »

inetknght wrote: post #344
jodrellblank wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "use something better. Like bash." Bash isn't better. > "Why are you worried about the problems that scripts face? Why do they matter to you?" because I write and run such scripts. > "Let the corporation suffer then" Microsoft wouldn't suffer, PowerShell users would suffer. > "sometimes that might mean filing a bug report... or a feature request for better documentation. " In this scenario the PowerShell team has b…

> Bash isn't better. It is, by virtue of running on Linux. > because I write and run such scripts. 'kay. Learn how to do Engineering and the software will come just fine. You don't need telemetry to tell you anything about scripts. You need good error reports for your users to send to you instead. > Microsoft wouldn't suffer, PowerShell users would suffer. So what you're saying is that Microsoft doesn't care about it…

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