More women than expected are genetically men (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: More women than expected are genetically men (2016)

#41

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:54 PM UTC

r14c wrote: post #27

otterley wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Haven't we already established that chromosomes do not determine gender? This statement is extremely controversial. The gender attribution wars are still burning like the Springfield tire fire.

controversial, sure, but its mostly people being upset that their cultural norms don't match the traits we observe in humans. we have already established that chromosomes do not determine gender, whether people accept it is a different question. we're also nearing the point where the earth being a spheroid is controversial so I'm not sure controversy really has anything to do with how factual something is.

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Re: More women than expected are genetically men (2016)

#42

Post by nofriend » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:54 PM UTC

_lvbh wrote: post #6

> “It is very upsetting for people who have grown up and lived for years believing that they are of a particular sex to suddenly discover that they are actually of the opposite sex. This can be a relief but can also be a loss. For most people it comes as a shock that upends their whole identity. Coping with this can take years,” I find this statement odd. Haven't we already established that chromosomes do not determi…

Such a person would lack a womb and ovaries and instead have internal testicles. Discovering that they are infertile is usually a shock to women, so it would at least prompt similar shock. Furthermore, discovering that the reason for their infertility is due to being biologically and genetically male would tend to prompt a similar gender dysphoria that trans people experience, I expect.

Re: More women than expected are genetically men (2016)

#43

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:54 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #15

_lvbh wrote: post #6

> “It is very upsetting for people who have grown up and lived for years believing that they are of a particular sex to suddenly discover that they are actually of the opposite sex. This can be a relief but can also be a loss. For most people it comes as a shock that upends their whole identity. Coping with this can take years,” I find this statement odd. Haven't we already established that chromosomes do not determi…

> Haven't we already established that chromosomes do not determine gender? This statement is extremely controversial. The gender attribution wars are still burning like the Springfield tire fire.

[deleted]

Re: More women than expected are genetically men (2016)

#44

Post by andoando » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:54 PM UTC

kulahan wrote: post #8

etchalon wrote: post #5

I'm shocked to find out that sex is more complicated than gender identity, and that there might be a bimodal distribution at play. I have been lied to.

Nothing in biology is really binary anyways. Male and female are just useful groupings because we’re a sexually dimorphic species, but as with anything in nature, that’s mostly a spectrum anyways, with strong representations at the anchoring ends.

I mean having an X or Y are pretty damn binary. DNA strand has binary pairs (A-T, C-G). The resulting codons have anitcodon pairs. Then within biological functions you have the parasympathetic system vs the parasympathetic system which do opposite things across the whole body, pro vs anti inflmmatory agents, activators vs inhibitors nearly on every level of biology.

Its actually rather astounding how much binary pairs play a role from the very core of physics.

Re: More women than expected are genetically men (2016)

#45

Post by OutOfHere » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:56 PM UTC

KittenInABox wrote: post #36

OutOfHere wrote: post #29

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Obviously you took it maximally out of context, just as someone operating in bad faith would do.

To restate with more clarity, if "she" doesn't menstruate (at a valid of menstruation) or doesn't develop natural breasts, she may not be able to give birth.

Re: More women than expected are genetically men (2016)

#46

Post by CoastalCoder » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:56 PM UTC

blueflow wrote: post #39

pimlottc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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My guess is that many are weary of this aspect of recent culture wars, and would prefer the conversation focuses on the interesting science instead.

Note: I did not vote on the comment in question.

Re: More women than expected are genetically men (2016)

#47

Post by otterley » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:56 PM UTC

stanfordkid wrote: post #35

otterley wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "real" mean here?

It means two people of different races can have a baby together, but two people of the same sex cannot.

Sure, but does that make it any less "real"?

Re: More women than expected are genetically men (2016)

#48

Post by jrm4 » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:56 PM UTC

blueflow wrote: post #39

pimlottc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Obviously, our two options here (and pretty much always are) "don't use this word because it hurts feelings and reinforces stereotypes" or "let's all step back and try to decide/encourage the idea that it is actually useful enough to use"

Here, the latter seems appropriate? "Disorder" is "out of order," it is something that is rare. I suppose "rare condition" might work too, I'm open to suggestions.

Re: More women than expected are genetically men (2016)

#49

Post by drcongo » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:56 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #11

_lvbh wrote: post #6

> “It is very upsetting for people who have grown up and lived for years believing that they are of a particular sex to suddenly discover that they are actually of the opposite sex. This can be a relief but can also be a loss. For most people it comes as a shock that upends their whole identity. Coping with this can take years,” I find this statement odd. Haven't we already established that chromosomes do not determi…

Stood out for me as well. For all I care you could tell me I'm genetically a giraffe or I was sent here from Alpha Centauri. If I was fine with it an hour ago when you hadn't told me I'm fine with it now

Finding out that you can never have children would likely be upsetting to a great many people. Just because you're so amazing, doesn't mean everybody is.

Re: More women than expected are genetically men (2016)

#50

Post by Aurornis » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 4:57 PM UTC

blueflow wrote: post #39

pimlottc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> Can't know what is a disorder is or not when you don't know whats "normal"

I hesitate to wade into this discussion, but in the case of the conditions listed in the article there are a number of additional symptoms and medical difficulties that go along with the genetic variants. It's not a simple matter of confusion about sex.

As for "normal": The biological systems involved are not functioning normally because a genetic mutation prevents them from doing so. For example, Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome means the person's androgen receptors are dysfunctional, and therefore biological functions that rely on androgen receptor activation are not working.

I know the concept of "normal" and "disorder" can trigger people, but biologically speaking this condition arises due to rare genetic variants that stop biological functions from working as intended. The medical speak is not meant to cast social judgment on these people.