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200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

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Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#91

Post by whartung »

Late at night, at a friends house, and his car died, but I need a ride to my car.

So, we took his motorcycle.

We come up to a street light, and it's not sensing us. So, I hop off, run over, press the WALK button, and run back and hop back on. In moments, the light turns green, the WALK sign says WALK and we're on our way.

Inevitably, a couple of blocks later, we're in the same boat.

Being too clever by half, I rinse and repeat -- off the bike, hit the WALK button, run back.

This time, the WALK sign turned on, but the light remained red.

Curses.

We just ran that one.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#93

Post by jamesblonde »

piva00 wrote: post #45
CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclist aren't massive nor hot, on a hot summerday they will be cooler than the road surface. I think a camera with object recognition or something similar should be able to do it. It's not the first time apps are being shoved where they shouldn't belong by the Flemish Government. They made a cooking app of half a million Euro [1] and there were trials where you could use an app to to get the deposit back on plastic…

> Cyclist aren't massive nor hot, on a hot summerday they will be cooler than the road surface. I think a camera with object recognition or something similar should be able to do it. I don't know the technical details on how it's done here in Stockholm, even less in the suburbs where I've lived but it feels like magic that in some traffic lights in busier intersections they'll just trigger by themselves with enough d…

In Stockholm, we have 2 sets of sensors dug :

1. induction coil sensor dug in road at the traffic light

2. radar sensor at 100-200m from the traffic light

It feels like magic because if you hit sensor (2) and there are no other competing cars, the traffic light changes for you and you don't have to slow down.

This is the best solution. In Dublin, they only have sensor (1) and it feels really slow in comparison. You keep having to stop and start.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#94

Post by iamtheworstdev »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #87
gruez wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's also probably cheaper than the extra physical infrastructure needed for inductive loops, given that all the necessary equipment (phones, GPS, cell infrastructure) is already in place for most people. Assuming the procurement/contracting for said app is done competently, which seems questionable for most governments. Moreover even if it's cheaper, surely some sort of camera/sensor setup would be safer than drive…

I'm guessing they wouldn't need to fiddle with an app; the software would just automatically signal their approach based on GPS/navigation info. I agree theoretically a camera + machine-learning based system could work just as well; I've always wondered why that wasn't standard on traffic lights these days given that the hardware would probably cost a few hundred dollars (if procurement for said hardware were done co…

why would you need machine learning? just detect a minimum of one bright light source, assume it's a headlight, and switch the lights. What the worse a false positive could do? this doesn't need AI

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#95

Post by dpe82 »

whartung wrote: post #91

Late at night, at a friends house, and his car died, but I need a ride to my car. So, we took his motorcycle. We come up to a street light, and it's not sensing us. So, I hop off, run over, press the WALK button, and run back and hop back on. In moments, the light turns green, the WALK sign says WALK and we're on our way. Inevitably, a couple of blocks later, we're in the same boat. Being too clever by half, I rinse…

In Wisconsin, motorcycles, bikes, etc. are sometimes allowed to run a red if they wait for 45s and there's no other traffic around: https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/346/vi/37...

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#96

Post by elric »

phkahler wrote: post #71
rob74 wrote: post #69

> A simple example: at night, a main road mainly displays green, the side streets only get green for a very short time. If you arrive with the app from a side street, you can get green immediately, provided there is no traffic on the main road. In Germany, there's an established but much more low tech approach to this problem: simply turn off the traffic lights at night! All traffic lights already have yield/stop/pri…

I don't understand why they need apps for this either. The infrastructure should be in place to detect cars approaching from the side street. Once they have the ability to detect cars, it's simple to assume everyone would be requesting a green light.

Flemish person here: no one here understands it either. Probably CV-driven development for someone...

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#97

Post by Ajedi32 »

iamtheworstdev wrote: post #94
Ajedi32 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing they wouldn't need to fiddle with an app; the software would just automatically signal their approach based on GPS/navigation info. I agree theoretically a camera + machine-learning based system could work just as well; I've always wondered why that wasn't standard on traffic lights these days given that the hardware would probably cost a few hundred dollars (if procurement for said hardware were done co…

why would you need machine learning? just detect a minimum of one bright light source, assume it's a headlight, and switch the lights. What the worse a false positive could do? this doesn't need AI

Comparable systems based on inductive loops work during the day. A design based on detecting headlights wouldn't. Software/compute is cheap and as you said reliability is not a safety concern.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#99

Post by shkkmo »

gruez wrote: post #90
rob74 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience as a cyclist contradicts that: many motorists will still (riskily) overtake you just to reach the red light sooner. Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them. See also: people passing by you on a multi-lane highway and then promptly slowing down once they have returned to your lane...

>My experience as a cyclist contradicts that: many motorists will still (riskily) overtake you just to reach the red light sooner. Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them. ??? Seems like the far more plausible reason is that drivers don't want to be held up by a cyclist traveling at 10mph in front of them? Moreover if it's really true that lights only turn from red once a car reache…

> Seems like the far more plausible reason is that drivers don't want to be held up by a cyclist traveling at 10mph in front of them?

You sound like one of thos drivers who believe it's OK to put other people at risk to save themselves a couple of seconds.

I see this all the time in my large truck that I'm very good at coasting into red lights. Even when there are already vehicles stopped at the light, people will not only stay on the gas way later than necessary and then brake unnecessarily hard but will also pass me to be sitting one car length further ahead at that light. Often it is done dangerously, without turn signals or proper blind spot checks. I know this because I've also almost been hit repeatedly on my motorcycle by cars doing this.

Re: 200k Flemish drivers can turn traffic lights green

#100

Post by nosrepa »

jeroenhd wrote: post #12
zspitzer wrote: post #9

In Melbourne, Australia, a long time ago, they embedded weight sensors in the road for a lot of intersections, so they can react dynamically to traffic conditions. I live in Berlin, which doesn't have such sensors and it's always frustrating waiting for lights to change when there's no traffic.

Are you sure they're using weight sensors? AFAIK wire loops seem much more useful, plus they have the advantage of also picking up bikes and other lightweight traffic more accurately. I can also tell you that even in a country with sensors all over the place, I do sometimes end up waiting on an intersection with no traffic. I assume it's some kind of public transportation/emergency vehicle priority system activating,…

No traffic light uses weight sensors.
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