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When we get Komooted

bikepacking.com

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Re: When we get Komooted

#161

Post by sneak »

dfc wrote: post #154
bakuninsbart wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has a 6 month probation period for new hires in which both sides can terminate the contract with 2 week notice. After that, it is one month, two months after 3 years going up to 7 months after 20 years.

Hiring senior employees sounds like it requires crystal ball level planning. Are there any tricks to make growth easier?

The trick that most startups seem to use is to simply operate in a different country.

(I write this comment from Berlin, where I wish it were much much easier and simpler to start and operate a business.)

Re: When we get Komooted

#162

Post by subpixel »

raffael_de wrote: post #101

I've been using Komoot a lot for bike tours in Germany and never have been particularly happy with it. It served the core purpose of telling me where to go but there were so many obvious flaws about it that I sometimes wondered if the people at Komoot actually even use it themselves. Then there is the obvious Geschmäckle of taking advantage of OSM (a free open source project) while not providing a way to give back to…

Poor one out for local Mitfahrzentrale!

Re: When we get Komooted

#163

Post by subpixel »

proactivesvcs wrote: post #96

I was also Komooted - by Komoot. They brought out ViewRanger, who I had paid money to provide a service. Month by month they removed the features and access that I had paid for, and made the app less useful. I am not sure I can feel any pity for Komoot, an organisation that met a fate down a path it seemed to choose.

I think that’s Outdooractive which is a Komoot competitor

Re: When we get Komooted

#164

Post by Towaway69 »

skrebbel wrote: post #8

I’d love a founder perspective on this. If they kept saying “we won’t sell” and then sell, is that just plain breaking all promises and selling out, as this article suggests? Or was there more going on?

Everyone has their price. Was the promise legally binding? Was the promise making money?

Just another example of degradation of trust within the western economies. Trust only money and you’ll be on the right side of history - unfortunately.

Trust, moral responsibility and kindness aren’t profitable - in terms of capital.

Re: When we get Komooted

#166

Post by benhurmarcel »

tdiff wrote: post #76
dakiol wrote: post #35

> Komoot, to them, was more than a job; it was a mission and purpose. Many had accepted below-average salaries and uprooted their lives to commit to the outdoor lifestyle and the dream job. Suddenly, they were left scrambling for new work and visa sponsors with just a few months’ pay as severance. The six bosses, meanwhile, pocketed an estimated 20 to 30 million euros each. That’s why, and call me unethical, I never…

> For dreams and craft, I have my side projects. In very infrequent cases can you achieve any noticeable (for society) results without being part of a large org.

There’s some maturity in being happy doing things that are not significant for society.

Re: When we get Komooted

#167

Post by Towaway69 »

atemerev wrote: post #29
stef25 wrote: post #18

Welcome to the capitalist world I guess. Not only does this happen all the time, it's the goal of most tech founders.

More than that, you won't succeed and your company will probably go in the dustbin of nice failed projects unless some scalable explicit monetization is the goal.

But on the other hand it makes business sooooo much simpler: have an idea, create much hype and excitement using marketing and social media, hire some influencers to promote your product, create website that promises a life changing difference if you use my product, hire a bunch of people to build something, wait and the sell to the highest bidder.

Being caught at a concert with the head of HR can be easily turned into a PR success, just add money.

No long term goals necessary, no employee retention programs, no social responsibility. Just pure and beautiful monies in the bank.

Re: When we get Komooted

#168

Post by jodrellblank »

sneak wrote: post #160
jodrellblank wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people with families to feed and 20-30 year mortgages desire more than a week of job stability when it can take months to find work again? Is this a serious question?

Yes, absolutely. If you have a family and a mortgage without first having enough savings to support those things through anomalies, you’re acting irresponsibly. Nobody should be expecting their employer (or any second party, really) to be their income stream’s low pass filter. That’s what your savings account is for. If you can’t support your family and mortgage through 6-9 months (minimum) out of savings, you should…

The best part about living under the Sword of Damocles is that when it falls on someone else I can lecture them about how they deserved it. I can't imagine it would ever fall on me, because I don't deserve it.

> "you’re acting irresponsibly"

If things were arranged so that you didn't need the savings to cover the constant worry of being fired, then not having the savings wouldn't be acting irresponsibly. Americans need health insurance, not having health insurance is irresponsible. In countries where healthcare is free at the point of use, not having health insurance is not irresponsible. You're arguing a logical tautology.

> "(Also, mortgage term is irrelevant here, I’m not sure why you mention it."

As an example illustration that people do not live life in 1-day or 1-week increments, but in decades. People want to - and do - put down roots and settle in for a long time.

Re: When we get Komooted

#169

Post by jodrellblank »

nradov wrote: post #127
jodrellblank wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people with families to feed and 20-30 year mortgages desire more than a week of job stability when it can take months to find work again? Is this a serious question?

It's a serious question. I have a family to feed and a 30-year mortgage, and I would much rather live in a place where I can be laid off with zero notice (and I have been a couple times). This makes it faster and easier to find a new job. A dynamic economy benefits everyone.

> "A dynamic economy benefits everyone"

Everyone is equal, just some are more equal than others. It benefits people who are highly skilled, clever, healthy, wealthy, young, with market-desirable skills in a market-desirable area, with no external family or life problems or responsibilities, and those who own and run companies, more than 95% of everyone else.

> "where I can be laid off with zero notice (and I have been a couple times). This makes it faster and easier to find a new job."

I don't see that follows; jobs can have probationary periods where employers can reject new hires quickly, while still having notice periods.

Re: When we get Komooted

#170

Post by gus_massa »

carlosjobim wrote: post #131
mellosouls wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This approach doesn't work ethically if you are working for (say) public service organisations. There's also the argument an abundance of cynicism - as well as being occasionally aimed at a misjudged target (eg you work for bosses who do try to do the right thing) - is corrupting to the self and wider society.

Of course the argument works for everybody who works in public service. You do the duties you are paid for. If you think that's not enough you are welcome to volunteer for free.

I agree. Or if the task is so important they should get a bigger salary.
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