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Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing

infineon.com

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Re: Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing

#21

Post by thebruce87m »

ivape wrote: post #12
scoreandmore wrote: post #6

I’ve played around with this (the KIT-CSK-BGT60TR13C). It is a very interesting gadget and the kit doesn’t need much configuration. In an afternoon I made a car detector for my bike that detects the presence of an approaching car from behind. I thought I had a winning startup idea then found out this idea has existed for years. :(

Those implementations might still suck.

They don’t suck. The Garmin one is also a rear light. It integrates with the bike computer to show detections.

When a car approaches from behind you get a visualisation on the bike computer showing you how far away the car is and an audio alert. If the car is approaching fast you get a different audio alert and the light flashes differently to warn the approaching car. It also detects up to three cars.

There might be improvements to be had but the implementation is pretty solid.

Re: Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing

#22

Post by NitpickLawyer »

transcriptase wrote: post #2

“Quick! How can we use this to gather data for ad targeting?”

Heh, people detection, gaze detection and people hotspots detection (i.e. where people mostly stand, say at an intersection) have been a thing for 15-20 years now, I consulted on such a project in the 2000s, using simple mobile cameras that were placed in a van, the van moved, and they'd make "maps" and sell that data to advertisers who chose where to place fixed/changeable ads banners. They eventually got that data from cell providers, and didn't need the cameras anymore.

Re: Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing

#23

Post by ivape »

thebruce87m wrote: post #21
ivape wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those implementations might still suck.

They don’t suck. The Garmin one is also a rear light. It integrates with the bike computer to show detections. When a car approaches from behind you get a visualisation on the bike computer showing you how far away the car is and an audio alert. If the car is approaching fast you get a different audio alert and the light flashes differently to warn the approaching car. It also detects up to three cars. There might be…

Ah. The Garmin Varia looks like it’s $200-300. Would be hard to go up against a brand like that, but wonder if you could compete on cost. The margins look great.

Re: Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing

#24

Post by Catbert59 »

Have a look at Hi-Link from China (on Aliexpress).

They offer 50GHz, 10GHz, 24GHz and 60GHz FMCW radar module boards for 10-30€ which are easy to reverse engineer on firmware and PCB level.

A lot of them are CW radars, a few FMCW and they also use the Infineon 60GHz radar chips. Very unusual for Infineon: with all tools and datasheets available without signing a NDA. Down to the register level.

There's an interesting Chinese company around (ICLink with their ICL1122/ICL1112) which offer highly integrated radar ICs. They can spit out raw ADC measurements of their downmixed baseband using Quad SPI at 20 or 40MHz when switching on their debug mode. Price range: ~10€. But datasheets are difficult to find. Example board: LD2410S.

The analog ones are easy to play with. You just need a DAC to drive their VCO and then can sample the I/Q pins with an ADC. That how a lot of the 24GHz modules (like the LD1125H) work.

Re: Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing

#25

Post by MezzoDelCammin »

ivape wrote: post #23
thebruce87m wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t suck. The Garmin one is also a rear light. It integrates with the bike computer to show detections. When a car approaches from behind you get a visualisation on the bike computer showing you how far away the car is and an audio alert. If the car is approaching fast you get a different audio alert and the light flashes differently to warn the approaching car. It also detects up to three cars. There might be…

Ah. The Garmin Varia looks like it’s $200-300. Would be hard to go up against a brand like that, but wonder if you could compete on cost. The margins look great.

Not even that. I think I had mine for under 150 (on some sale). Also, there are a few cheaper alternatives, but some tests have shown them to be less reliable (either false positives, or worse - false "all clear").

There's one feature they all miss. They only measure relative velocity to You. That's definitely better than nothing, but in my experience the most dangerous drivers aren't necessarily the fastest ones, but those who pass too closely. So, something like "angle of approach" measurement would be a feature I'd personally be willing to switch my Varia for something else.

Re: Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing

#26

Post by debian3 »

ivape wrote: post #23
thebruce87m wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t suck. The Garmin one is also a rear light. It integrates with the bike computer to show detections. When a car approaches from behind you get a visualisation on the bike computer showing you how far away the car is and an audio alert. If the car is approaching fast you get a different audio alert and the light flashes differently to warn the approaching car. It also detects up to three cars. There might be…

Ah. The Garmin Varia looks like it’s $200-300. Would be hard to go up against a brand like that, but wonder if you could compete on cost. The margins look great.

There is tons of cheaper alternatives now. Some chinese brand. The implementation is particularly hard to get right (how to avoid object that enters the radar field of view like passing next to a fence among other tricky scenario like a car that follow at the same speed as you but suddenly accelerate to pass you, etc). A lot of competiting radars will have false positives or negatives. That’s why Garmin is still the favorite product on the market. Wahoo just released one as well, and the reviews are quite positive so far. Bryton makes one, Magene, Giant, Trek, igpsport, etc.

Re: Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing

#27

Post by RossBencina »

0_____0 wrote: post #17
monksy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is nice to see more technically oriented things on the main page. It is frustrating to see very high level more businessy topics.

It is fascinating to me how 'hackers' went from being people who operated at the margins of established technology (2600, Capn Crunch anyone?), to being the literal establishment, in the sense that probably a good chunk of the 'hackers' here work at one of the big 5 or plausibly could.

What's the best "Margins News" site today?

Re: Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing

#28

Post by progbits »

I got one of those cheap waveshare 60GHz modules with heart rate detection a few years ago. My goal was to build a sleep tracker - stick it under the bed pointing up, detect getting in and out of bed and falling asleep.

Unfortunately even just pointed straight at me with no obstructions and nobody else in the room the data was more or less random noise...

I wonder if now (after few more years of development, more reputable manufacturer and more money) it is worth trying again?

Re: Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing

#29

Post by scrpn »

scoreandmore wrote: post #6

I’ve played around with this (the KIT-CSK-BGT60TR13C). It is a very interesting gadget and the kit doesn’t need much configuration. In an afternoon I made a car detector for my bike that detects the presence of an approaching car from behind. I thought I had a winning startup idea then found out this idea has existed for years. :(

Could you share how you did it? Interested in this as a hobby

Re: Low cost mmWave 60GHz radar sensor for advanced sensing

#30

Post by ivape »

RossBencina wrote: post #27
0_____0 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fascinating to me how 'hackers' went from being people who operated at the margins of established technology (2600, Capn Crunch anyone?), to being the literal establishment, in the sense that probably a good chunk of the 'hackers' here work at one of the big 5 or plausibly could.

What's the best "Margins News" site today?

Slashdot is HN minus good behavior and a touch of 4chan. Their site is such shit with the ads though.
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