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Ageing accelerates around age 50 ― some organs faster than others

nature.com

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Re: Ageing accelerates around age 50 ― some organs faster than others

#31

Post by kkoncevicius »

NoOn3 wrote: post #11
piombisallow wrote: post #8

It's very likely that aging is driven by some kind of scheduled gene program. It makes perfect sense to phase out individuals from a group-level selection point of view.

Maybe. But why in this case do we not see bugs and failures in this program, i.e. no one lived 5 times more than the average or did not live forever at all, for example? I'm not making a statement, just a guess.

Such arguments go both ways. For example, if aging is accumulation of damage and not programmed, then why don't we see lucky people who live 5 times longer. Also how come the patterns of aging are so similar between individuals and even between different species (wrinkly skin, grey hair, fragile bones).

Re: Ageing accelerates around age 50 ― some organs faster than others

#32

Post by Qem »

piombisallow wrote: post #8

It's very likely that aging is driven by some kind of scheduled gene program. It makes perfect sense to phase out individuals from a group-level selection point of view.

Perhaps not a phase-out program, but a progressive shut-down program, as a trade off between peak performance and total lifespan, where the characteristic patterns of ageing is what allowed humans to live much longer than other animals around the same size. Similar to the idea in this comic: https://www.badspacecomics.com/post/the-suit

By this logic, as a hedge against sudden death around ~50, the human body start cranking down the output of its diverse subsystems by then, to maximize operacional life, just like NASA engineers from time to time turn off instruments in the voyager to keep it operational against the odds. This is what we call ageing.

Re: Ageing accelerates around age 50 ― some organs faster than others

#33

Post by kkoncevicius »

jebarker wrote: post #30
piombisallow wrote: post #8

It's very likely that aging is driven by some kind of scheduled gene program. It makes perfect sense to phase out individuals from a group-level selection point of view.

Life expectancy much longer than 40 is a modern thing for humans though. So where would the over 40s schedule have come from? Or do you mean the schedule basically says: once you hit 50 start falling apart?

The average life expectancy was low because of more deaths during childhood and wars. But the natural lifespan was more or less the same as it is today. For example, take a look at famous philosophers or politicians from Ancient Greece. Majority of them lived to about 70-80 years of age.

Re: Ageing accelerates around age 50 ― some organs faster than others

#34

Post by 01100011 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #16
wonderwonder wrote: post #12

I felt incredibly old from ~36 - 42. Then I started seriously working out, took control of my diet (it had very much always controlled me) and started aggressively pursuing a "better living through chemistry" approach to life. I feel 25 years younger now. My BP and cholesterol are under control and I roll out of bed actually feeling rested (probably due to not snoring anymore).

I started weight training at about age 54. I had never done any form of regular exercise in my life. Attempts here and there, but nothing ever stuck for very long. I am stronger now than I ever have been.

I weight trained until having a toddler and a new house at 50. 3 months later and I get up from a chair like I'm 75 and all my joints hurt.

Re: Ageing accelerates around age 50 ― some organs faster than others

#35

Post by dyauspitr »

jebarker wrote: post #30
piombisallow wrote: post #8

It's very likely that aging is driven by some kind of scheduled gene program. It makes perfect sense to phase out individuals from a group-level selection point of view.

Life expectancy much longer than 40 is a modern thing for humans though. So where would the over 40s schedule have come from? Or do you mean the schedule basically says: once you hit 50 start falling apart?

Life expectancy was heavily skewed by under 5 mortality rate. There were a lot of people living to old age.

Re: Ageing accelerates around age 50 ― some organs faster than others

#36

Post by abeppu »

jebarker wrote: post #30
piombisallow wrote: post #8

It's very likely that aging is driven by some kind of scheduled gene program. It makes perfect sense to phase out individuals from a group-level selection point of view.

Life expectancy much longer than 40 is a modern thing for humans though. So where would the over 40s schedule have come from? Or do you mean the schedule basically says: once you hit 50 start falling apart?

People keep repeating this, but my understanding is that low overall life expectancies historically were substantially about high infant mortality. If you made it out of childhood, your chances of living to be "old" were decent. It's not that the program used to say to start decaying at 40, it's that other exogenous forces would stop a lot of people from getting to that part of the program.

Re: Ageing accelerates around age 50 ― some organs faster than others

#37

Post by adamors »

jebarker wrote: post #30
piombisallow wrote: post #8

It's very likely that aging is driven by some kind of scheduled gene program. It makes perfect sense to phase out individuals from a group-level selection point of view.

Life expectancy much longer than 40 is a modern thing for humans though. So where would the over 40s schedule have come from? Or do you mean the schedule basically says: once you hit 50 start falling apart?

No, it’s not a modern thing, you’re conflating average life expectancy at birth with how long people lived in general.

> Back in 1994 a study looked at every man entered into the Oxford Classical Dictionary who lived in ancient Greece or Rome. Their ages of death were compared to men listed in the more recent Chambers Biographical Dictionary. Of 397 ancients in total, 99 died violently by murder, suicide or in battle. Of the remaining 298, those born before 100BC lived to a median age of 72 years. Those born after 100BC lived to a median age of 66. (The authors speculate that the prevalence of dangerous lead plumbing may have led to this apparent shortening of life).

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181002-how-long-did-anc...

Just one source

Re: Ageing accelerates around age 50 ― some organs faster than others

#38

Post by jebarker »

kkoncevicius wrote: post #33
jebarker wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life expectancy much longer than 40 is a modern thing for humans though. So where would the over 40s schedule have come from? Or do you mean the schedule basically says: once you hit 50 start falling apart?

The average life expectancy was low because of more deaths during childhood and wars. But the natural lifespan was more or less the same as it is today. For example, take a look at famous philosophers or politicians from Ancient Greece. Majority of them lived to about 70-80 years of age.

Good point. I realize that I was thinking of average life expectancy and that was biased by high child mortality until recently

Re: Ageing accelerates around age 50 ― some organs faster than others

#39

Post by csallen »

NoOn3 wrote: post #11
piombisallow wrote: post #8

It's very likely that aging is driven by some kind of scheduled gene program. It makes perfect sense to phase out individuals from a group-level selection point of view.

Maybe. But why in this case do we not see bugs and failures in this program, i.e. no one lived 5 times more than the average or did not live forever at all, for example? I'm not making a statement, just a guess.

Lots of models could explain this. For example, let's say it's not just one program, but thousand of programs running in your body, trying to get you to age or die. The chances that all of them bug out would be astronomically low.

Re: Ageing accelerates around age 50 ― some organs faster than others

#40

Post by abeppu »

kkoncevicius wrote: post #31
NoOn3 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But why in this case do we not see bugs and failures in this program, i.e. no one lived 5 times more than the average or did not live forever at all, for example? I'm not making a statement, just a guess.

Such arguments go both ways. For example, if aging is accumulation of damage and not programmed, then why don't we see lucky people who live 5 times longer. Also how come the patterns of aging are so similar between individuals and even between different species (wrinkly skin, grey hair, fragile bones).

But aren't there a lot of processes that could drive accumulated damage that are hard to avoid (so you can't realistically get lucky)? E.g. if metabolic processes produce harmful products in low quantities that build up ... How would you possibly survive many decades without doing at least a certain amount of metabolizing food etc?
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