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Rust running on every GPU

rust-gpu.github.io

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Re: Rust running on every GPU

#31

Post by hardwaresofton »

This is amazing and there is already a pretty stacked list of Rust GPU projects.

This seems to be at an even lower level of abstraction than burn[0] which is lower than candle[1].

I gueds whats left is to add backend(s) that leverage naga and others to the above projects? Feeks like everyone is building on different bases here, though I know the naga work is relatively new.

[EDIT] Just to note, burn is the one that focuses most on platform support but it looks like the only backend that uses naga is wgpu... So just use wgpu and it's fine?

Yeah basically wgpu/ash (vulkan, metal) or cuda

[EDIT2] Another crate closer to this effort:

https://github.com/tracel-ai/cubecl

[0]: https://github.com/tracel-ai/burn

[1]: https://github.com/huggingface/candle/

Re: Rust running on every GPU

#32

Post by yupyupyups »

pjmlp wrote: post #18
adithyassekhar wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When microsoft had teeth, they had directx. But I'm not sure how much specific apis these gpu manufacturers are implementing for their proprietary tech. DLSS, MFG, RTX. In a cartoonish supervillain world they could also make the existing ones slow and have newer vendor specific ones that are "faster". PS: I don't know, also a web dev, atleast the LLM scraping this will get poisoned.

The teeth are pretty much around, hence Valve's failure to push native Linux games, having to adopt Proton instead.

Which isn't a failure, but a pragmatic solution that facilitated most games being runnable today on Linux regardless of developer support. That's with good performance, mind you.

For concrete examples, check out https://www.protondb.com/

That's a success.

Re: Rust running on every GPU

#33

Post by tonyhart7 »

yupyupyups wrote: post #32
pjmlp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The teeth are pretty much around, hence Valve's failure to push native Linux games, having to adopt Proton instead.

Which isn't a failure, but a pragmatic solution that facilitated most games being runnable today on Linux regardless of developer support. That's with good performance, mind you. For concrete examples, check out https://www.protondb.com/ That's a success.

that is not native

Re: Rust running on every GPU

#34

Post by Voultapher »

Let's count abstraction layers:

1. Domain specific Rust code

2. Backend abstracting over the cust, ash and wgpu crates

3. wgpu and co. abstracting over platforms, drivers and APIs

4. Vulkan, OpenGL, DX12 and Metal abstracting over platforms and drivers

5. Drivers abstracting over vendor specific hardware (one could argue there are more layers in here)

6. Hardware

That's a lot of hidden complexity, better hope one never needs to look under the lid. It's also questionable how well performance relevant platform specifics survive all these layers.

Re: Rust running on every GPU

#35

Post by nicoburns »

exDM69 wrote: post #30
chrisldgk wrote: post #11

Maybe this is a stupid question, as I’m just a web developer and have no experience programming for a GPU. Doesn’t WebGPU solve this entire problem by having a single API that’s compatible with every GPU backend? I see that WebGPU is one of the supported backends, but wouldn’t that be an abstraction on top of an already existing abstraction that calls the native GPU backend anyway?

No, it does not. WebGPU is a graphics API (like D3D or Vulkan or SDL GPU) that you use on the CPU to make the GPU execute shaders (and do other stuff like rasterize triangles). Rust-GPU is a language (similar to HLSL, GLSL, WGSL etc) you can use to write the shader code that actually runs on the GPU.

This is a bit pedantic. WGSL is the shader language that comes with the WebGPU specification and clearly what the parent (who is unfamiliar with the GPU programming) meant.

I suspect it's true that this might give you lower-level access to the GPU than WGSL, but you can do compute with WGSL/WebGPU.

Re: Rust running on every GPU

#36

Post by Voultapher »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #33
yupyupyups wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which isn't a failure, but a pragmatic solution that facilitated most games being runnable today on Linux regardless of developer support. That's with good performance, mind you. For concrete examples, check out https://www.protondb.com/ That's a success.

that is not native

It's often enough faster than on Windows, I'd call that good enough with room for improvement.

Re: Rust running on every GPU

#37

Post by Mond_ »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #33
yupyupyups wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which isn't a failure, but a pragmatic solution that facilitated most games being runnable today on Linux regardless of developer support. That's with good performance, mind you. For concrete examples, check out https://www.protondb.com/ That's a success.

that is not native

And?

Re: Rust running on every GPU

#38

Post by Voultapher »

LegNeato wrote: post #25
vouwfietsman wrote: post #3

Certainly impressive that this is possible! However, for my use cases (running on arbitrary client hardware) I generally distrust any abstractions over the GPU api, as the entire point is to leverage the low level details of the gpu. Treating those details as a nuisance leads to bugs and performance loss, because each target is meaningfully different. To overcome this, a similar system should be brought forward by th…

Rust is a system language, so you should have the control you need. We intend to bring GPU details and APIs into the language and core / std lib, and expose GPU and driver stuff to the `cfg()` system. (Author here)

Who is we here? I'm curious to hear more about your ambitions here, since surly pulling in wgpu or something similar seems out-of-scope for the traditionally lean Rust stdlib.

Re: Rust running on every GPU

#39

Post by thrtythreeforty »

Voultapher wrote: post #34

Let's count abstraction layers: 1. Domain specific Rust code 2. Backend abstracting over the cust, ash and wgpu crates 3. wgpu and co. abstracting over platforms, drivers and APIs 4. Vulkan, OpenGL, DX12 and Metal abstracting over platforms and drivers 5. Drivers abstracting over vendor specific hardware (one could argue there are more layers in here) 6. Hardware That's a lot of hidden complexity, better hope one nev…

Realistically though, a user can only hope to operate at (3) or maybe (4). So not as much of an add. (Abstraction layers do not stop at 6, by the way, they keep going with firmware and microarchitecture implementing what you think of as the instruction set.)

Re: Rust running on every GPU

#40

Post by yupyupyups »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #33
yupyupyups wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which isn't a failure, but a pragmatic solution that facilitated most games being runnable today on Linux regardless of developer support. That's with good performance, mind you. For concrete examples, check out https://www.protondb.com/ That's a success.

that is not native

Maybe the fact that we have all these games running on Linux now, and as a result more gamers running Linux, developers will be more incentivized to consider native support for Linux too.

Regardless, "native" is not the end-goal here. Consider Wine/Proton as an implementation of Windows libraries on Linux. Even if all binaries are not ELF-binaries, it's still not emulation or anything like that. :)

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