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Apple Never Invented Anything

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Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#121

Post by ghshephard »

vacri wrote: post #96
ghshephard wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to keep things fact based, the recent court case against samsung did not cite the "Pinch-to-zoo-after-finger-contact-has-been-broken-and-restarted patent of 7,812,826. You can read that patent here: http://www.google.com/patents/US7812826 And, even thought that patent was _not_ referenced in the case, you will see it's a particular multi-touch behavior _associated with pinch-to-zoom_ that apple is claiming a pro…

You don't have to contest the patent for it to be suppressing others' design. I once worked for a company that made a humidifying air pump. We had to have the water tank held in with a removable flap rather than a door because our main competitor had patented 'holding the tank in with a hinged flap/door'. Sure, you could fight it in court, down the track, after hardware design (which is much more expensive than peopl…

The points I was trying to make (and clearly failed) is that Apple does not have a patent on pinch to zoom, so they couldn't contest the patent on it, because it doesn't belong to them.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#122

Post by ars »

surrealize wrote: post #72
upinsmoke wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other companies don't do marketing then?

Not as well as apple does.

Apple didn't even invent the idea - Bose has been doing it for years.

Bose product sounds good, yes, but not as good as their price tag. Bose also severely restricts the way you can use the product - no bass/treble knobs for example. Very similar to Apple.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#123

Post by ThomPete »

cheald wrote: post #49
ThomPete wrote: post #21

Apple invented the ability to take geeky stuff and turn it into cool stuff for normal people. That's a pretty big feat in itself.

That's called "marketing". It's not really new.

There is no other company that can market a company like apple.

No other company can just show their product without having to say anything about it. That makes Apple unique in such a fundamental way which is exactly why they are the most (or one of the most) valuable company in the world.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#124

Post by vacri »

ghshephard wrote: post #121
vacri wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to contest the patent for it to be suppressing others' design. I once worked for a company that made a humidifying air pump. We had to have the water tank held in with a removable flap rather than a door because our main competitor had patented 'holding the tank in with a hinged flap/door'. Sure, you could fight it in court, down the track, after hardware design (which is much more expensive than peopl…

The points I was trying to make (and clearly failed) is that Apple does not have a patent on pinch to zoom, so they couldn't contest the patent on it, because it doesn't belong to them.

Something funny is going on - I don't recall doing my reply against this particular comment, I think it was meant to be against a different comment about patents being trivial to work around or somesuch. Probably human error on my part, my apologies.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#125

Post by smartkids »

arn wrote: post #114
smartkids wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the comment. Of course the thought has crossed my mind. But I'm not so sure there's any evidence to support it. I actually test some of my ideas with people like your mother, and surprisingly (why should I be surprised?) they have little trouble catching on. What's really amusing is that these things that I have them doing are things that many nerds cannot themsleves do. I've got them using systems and t…

I understand the comment. Of course the thought has crossed my mind. But I'm not so sure there's any evidence to support it. Your post is vague enough that I have a hard time parsing it. No evidence for what? That there is such a thing as a "non techy" user? The evidence is overwhelming, including anecdotal evidence from practically every "techy" person here who have ever had to help their family/friends with a compu…

anecdotal evidence indeed. that's precisely the point. there is no empirical evidence behind the vast majority of comments like these. conclusions without evidence or any indication of the methods used to arrive at them.

linux? are you kidding? this is exactly what i was referring to: assumptions. how did you conclude by booting an os i meant linux?

a true apple fanboy. thanks for sharing.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#126

Post by ekianjo »

echaozh wrote: post #117
cromwellian wrote: post #42

One interesting point is he brought up Einstein's invention of relativity. Notice that in the scientific community, humanity has been building upon previous work for centuries with no copyright or patent protection, and nothing more than honor, citation, and shame against plagiarists. The fundamental defense made by many is that without patent protection for software, people would not put much effort into innovating.…

I don't even think medicines should be patented. I think government should fund the R&D and then let all companies manufacture and sell it at a low price. Then it is even better than medicare. The government can sell the production method to other countries for a profit though.

Yeah I am sure government is the right place to fund innovation! (See how the NASA has been productive vs SpaceX for example) - and why don't you let the government run the production of cars, as well ? Oh wait, we tried that before. That gave Skoda and the Trabant in Eastern Europe. Clear examples how professional government sponsored innovation was.

No, thanks.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#127

Post by ender7 »

ghshephard wrote: post #59
cromwellian wrote: post #42

One interesting point is he brought up Einstein's invention of relativity. Notice that in the scientific community, humanity has been building upon previous work for centuries with no copyright or patent protection, and nothing more than honor, citation, and shame against plagiarists. The fundamental defense made by many is that without patent protection for software, people would not put much effort into innovating.…

Just to keep things fact based, the recent court case against samsung did not cite the "Pinch-to-zoo-after-finger-contact-has-been-broken-and-restarted patent of 7,812,826. You can read that patent here: http://www.google.com/patents/US7812826 And, even thought that patent was _not_ referenced in the case, you will see it's a particular multi-touch behavior _associated with pinch-to-zoom_ that apple is claiming a pro…

Thank you for linking those articles, that was very helpful.

That said, Google was lucky that there was a loophole in the patent definition. Imagine a world where Apple had actually obtained an airtight patent on a system that listens for single- or multi-touch gestures and switches between scrolling and pinch-to-zoom appropriately (which is essentially what the patent in question does). So, you'd be free to implement pinch-to-zoom as long as it doesn't infringe on that. Good luck.

(the point here being that, de facto, Apple would essentially have a patent on pinch-to-scroll. In real life [not in the proposed alternate universe] this is almost true -- there are loopholes, but you have to hire a patent lawyer to find and/or confirm them).

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#128

Post by ekianjo »

Most people here seem to argue whether or not Apple have the rights to hold patents on what they did (and whether that should grand them protection). But where this argument is flawed, is that protection from being copied is not only centered around the patent system. There are multiple ways you can protect your inventions, through trade secrets, supply chain efficiency that nobody else can reproduce, through a software environment which is worth more in its whole than the sum of its parts.

We know Apple is already using all the above techniques to protect their business. They have an excellent supply chain, they obviously have preferential trade partners which enable them access the new technologies first before anyone else, and they have a iOS system which is well rounded for its purpose.

Net, they really do not need to leverage their patents protection. That could be an indication that they do not think they are going to be very innovative down the road, and therefore they just want to keep competitors as far as possible until they pull their act together again... or that they have too many lawyers with too much time on their hands to investigate how much harm they could do with claims based on air and smoke.

When a company resorts to such practices, it is usually not a good sign.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#129

Post by yogrish »

I was under the same opinion as the author. While the Apple Vs Sammy was going many ppl said every feature iphone existed before. But, iphone has the right mix of them in right proportions and that has made it Tick. W.r.t Patenting rects with round corners etc, I too disagree with Apple. Violating Trade dress by Sammy is not acceptable either.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#130

Post by cheald »

ThomPete wrote: post #123
cheald wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's called "marketing". It's not really new.

There is no other company that can market a company like apple. No other company can just show their product without having to say anything about it. That makes Apple unique in such a fundamental way which is exactly why they are the most (or one of the most) valuable company in the world.

I don't disagree. Apple is among the best marketers in the world. But they didn't invent it - they just do it best-in-class.
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