Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Do not download the app, use the website

idiallo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 760 posts

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#201

Post by johnisgood »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #196
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost certainly has to do with how the app is built. Most thoughtfully built native SDK (UIKit, etc) apps clock in well under the 100MB mark, often under half or a quarter that. Bloat like that is usually due to unnecessarily convoluted tech stacks pulling in a list of dependencies that goes out to Mars and back, or for globally targeted apps sometimes it’s translations for everything in the app for hundreds of diff…

"clock in well under the 100MB mark" But this is still incredibly ridiculously comically gross. The fact that we can afford it these days is an irrelevant seperate thing. These numbers are just unjustifiable for what most apps actually do.

Yeah, especially if I can make a desktop app under 10 MB with the same functionality and features (obviously non-Electron).

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#202

Post by boznz »

andrewstuart2 wrote: post #157
rustystump wrote: post #134

I cannot agree more and this has always been a pet peeve of mine. Most native apps are some half gig large where even the heaviest website is a few mb. They dont let you highlight text and have other bizarre design choices. Even worse, they request importing contacts list which isnt even an option on the web. Native apps could be butter but more often than not they are like margarine. Smooth, oily, and not good for y…

500MB average seems like a gross exaggeration. I agree apps are oversize but I have maybe 2 native apps on mobile that are so large.

The UK's new electronic visa application form app is over 200MB and it is literally only a 3 page application form. Program efficiency at its finest!

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#203

Post by frollogaston »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #200
frollogaston wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explicitly promotional push isn't allowed on iPhone to begin with. Only exception is if the user enables it via some setting inside your app, separate from the regular permission dialog, which is really unlikely. Of course you can just pass off promotional stuff as not promotional, but same on Android, and you have to be sly about it.

>Only exception is if the user enables it via some setting inside your app Or if Apple has a movie they really really want to promote

Haha true, or better yet a U2 album

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#204

Post by [deleted] »

markbao wrote: post #7

Don’t agree, but to each their own. The native app experience for every app noted in the article is better and smoother than the mobile web version, in my opinion. Lots of people hate Electron apps, which suggests to me that my preference for native apps isn’t unique. Web apps can ask for your location or microphone the same way native apps can. Just reject it, there’s nothing that says you have to accept on either p…

[deleted]

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#206

Post by cosmic_cheese »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #196
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost certainly has to do with how the app is built. Most thoughtfully built native SDK (UIKit, etc) apps clock in well under the 100MB mark, often under half or a quarter that. Bloat like that is usually due to unnecessarily convoluted tech stacks pulling in a list of dependencies that goes out to Mars and back, or for globally targeted apps sometimes it’s translations for everything in the app for hundreds of diff…

"clock in well under the 100MB mark" But this is still incredibly ridiculously comically gross. The fact that we can afford it these days is an irrelevant seperate thing. These numbers are just unjustifiable for what most apps actually do.

I mean, it scales with complexity. Naturally, well-made native SDK apps bumping up against 100MB are more likely to be highly functional, while simple apps are very small.

For a couple examples pulled from my TestFlight list, there’s a social media site reader app that’s 7.6MB and a text editor that’s 697KB. Those sizes aren’t the least bit unreasonable.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#207

Post by bitpush »

scarface_74 wrote: post #184
bitpush wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason I believe the web experience is inferior is because companies put more resources into apps at the expense of the web. The main reason is just a single company - Apple. They have been hell bent on nerfing Safari so that they can continue their rent seeking behavior on App Store. If Spotify has a functional mobile website, they cant take 30% cut from their app. The way Apple does is 2 fold. 1) deliberating…

Yes that’s why there are so many great PWAs on Android and companies don’t make apps for Android and instead tell their users to use the web app… And Spotify hasn’t had in app purchasing of subscriptions on iOS for over a decade. Apple has never once said you would get malware by using Safari.

Spotify was an example, but since you were harping on it. Why is it that on desktop everyone uses spotify.com to listen to music, purchase subscription but when it comes to iPhone, we have to install an app from the App Store.

Who do you think is stopping from that happening?

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#208

Post by ajross »

llm_nerd wrote: post #91
kingo55 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how much it seems Apple detests PWAs, I don't ever see this happening. One can dream.

I feel like Apple is some lazy target for people to point to why PWAs have little uptake. Android has long had PWA support. Almost no one uses it at all. In fact iOS users have long had significantly high web browser usage than their Android compatriots. "It's because iOS doesn't support it...somehow. Despite entirely separate bases that could be served in entirely different ways, it's actually Apple's fault" A coupl…

> reach to successively more niche weird Google additions to Chrome

Um... bluetooth? USB? Sensors? Basically anything dealing with external hardware is a huge hole. I can configure and flash my QMK keyboard from my phone or laptop just by following a shortened URL.

I mean, sure. "Web Sites" work great on Safari! But Apple cares deeply that "Apps" have broader capabilities than the browser, and it does it by crippling progress with PWAs.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#209

Post by cosmic_cheese »

frollogaston wrote: post #195
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite, at least on iOS. React Native is the dominant non-native framework there. I run into web shells on occasion but they’re unusual relative to desktop.

Oh, I meant React Native, not an actual full-page UIWebView rendering the entire app (though there is that too). Yeah RN is a totally different renderer, but if something works in RN then I expect the same to work in web. Discord did both.

RN isn’t quite a web shell, it’s more of a hybrid, though I have seen RN apps use webviews to inject web app bits here and there.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#210

Post by charcircuit »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #193
charcircuit wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you hold users hostage without providing them value?

Nostalgia, network effects, and boiling thr frog. Then you build on that with business incentives; you may not like Facebook, but you need to advertise there because that's where everyone is. Basically, you rely on goodwill from yester-year and slowly ad in intrusive stuff that users adjust to. Thars enshittification in its raw essence. Admittedly, this mostly works because the general user is not "active" and will n…

Nostalgia changes how people perceive value. Network effects is about how exponential value can be gained from linear user growth. Boiling the frog us about slowly doing things to avoid changing how people perceive value. None of these are a sign a product has no value.

No one would advertise with Facebook if there was no value from purchasing ad space. The billions of dollars people spend is evidence there is value there for advertisers.

>will not take the time to migrate

Sure, people don't actively seek to maximize the value they receive, but that doesn't mean what they are currently getting value from doesn't have value.

Post reply on HN