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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#271

Post by SXX »

o11c wrote: post #243
MegaButts wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you really want to compel selling access to pedo games? > Do you really want to compel selling access to rape games? > Do you really want to compel selling access to incest games? So ban the things you believe are the problem instead of blanket banning everything.

Are they actually banning "everything" though? From what I can see, that's entirely clickbait fraud.

The group behind this censorship attack is not just against porn games. It's also attacked games like Detroit: Become Human.

So they want to censor far more than just porn.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#272

Post by Saline9515 »

martin-t wrote: post #228
nlawalker wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really disagree with you, but to play devil's advocate - when you see something that you think is harmful to society, what determines whether or not it's moral and appropriate to advocate for and work towards its abolition in what you see as the best interest of everyone? Is "Don't like X? Don't buy it" as far as we should go with... AI-produced child porn? Rolling coal and other egregious pollution? Online g…

If somebody things he knows better, he shouldn't be allowed to push his views on others from his position of power. All public policies should be subject to public scrutiny. Nobody has any right to dictate other people's lives. For his view to be even considered, he should be required to prove beyond reasonable doubt, that whatever he is against is actually harmful. And after that, only after that, should the voting…

Your propositions are contradictory. If "society" decides to harm itself, and I'm part of it, I'll have to suffer from the choices taken by others.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#273

Post by mywittyname »

derbOac wrote: post #229

Why isn't there another counter group putting pressure on them to not pull this kind of thing?

Because it's slightly/majority embarrassing. The groups backing this ban will find the worst of the worst thing, and paint you as a massive supporter. And their militant zealots will endanger your life if you become significant enough.

It takes a certain kind of person to stand up for pornography. And most are not that kind of person.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#274

Post by cyanydeez »

can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

[flagged]

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#275

Post by kelseyfrog »

evilduck wrote: post #124
kelseyfrog wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably, the belief of Collective Shout is that there is a causal link between acting out incest, rape, and sexual violence in games and acting on those behaviors in real life. What would you do if you harbored that belief?

Empirically prove it.

Making sure I get this straight. You're saying that if you shared that believe, you would go out in search of evidence to prove it? I hate to break the news, but if we read the literature published by members of Collective Shout, they have in fact done this. The evidence they have supports their claims. Let's be clear, the evidence they have is independent of the veracity of the claims, but they have done with you suggested. However, it had the effect of confirming their beliefs.

I hate to ask the question again, but if you believed the same thing and felt like you empirically proved it, how would you behave?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#276

Post by johnnyanmac »

fossgeller wrote: post #248
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no, weird stuff in games? Or even... morally grey actions in games? How awful!

Well yes, one could argue that if games like GTA don’t turn people into criminals than these games are also harmless. Imo it’s a bit different in this case, as a more natural instinct (sexuality) is affected. Sure, games can be beneficial for living out fantasies, but how will it affect your view on women if you frequently consume highly sexist content? The bottom line of my point is that I think this type of content…

>Imo it’s a bit different in this case, as a more natural instinct (sexuality) is affected.

I personally don't see the difference. Violence is a primal instinct and studies on video games and violence only concluded short term increases in aggression. Why would a similar conclusion with yet another primal instinct not conclude with short term increased arousal? I don't see arousal as inherently dangerous.

>how will it affect your view on women if you frequently consume highly sexist content?

Do you feel that people just find "sexist content" from some algorithm, or that already sexist people seek out content to conform to their views? I have my criticisms of Steam, but I am glad they are one of the few bastions left that aren't driven by "engagment boosting" algorithms. Just a simple tag system recommending other content with similar tags and good ratings.

I agree with the undertone that we need better sex education. Those early years where we don't sell content to 10 year olds should be used to talk about the dangers before sending them off. Too bad such groups also go for an all-abstinence approach.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#277

Post by martin-t »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #268
martin-t wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If somebody things he knows better, he shouldn't be allowed to push his views on others from his position of power. All public policies should be subject to public scrutiny. Nobody has any right to dictate other people's lives. For his view to be even considered, he should be required to prove beyond reasonable doubt, that whatever he is against is actually harmful. And after that, only after that, should the voting…

> Nobody has any right to dictate other people's lives. The pragmatics of activism prove contrary to this ideal. The reality is that this is a failed argument and it will continue to fail regardless of how often it's repeated. I hate to say it, but the only way to counter is to win at the activism game rather than complain about the rules.

Nothing failed. People always did things they had no right to, as long as they were allowed to do them.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#278

Post by SirYandi »

danielvaughn wrote: post #260

imo nothing wrong with a platform deciding what content it wants to host. But there’s also nothing wrong with allowing this type of content. Who wants to help me build an uncensored game distribution platform? We could call it Steamy.

Yes, but it's not the platform really making the decision in this case. It's their payment processor

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#279

Post by martin-t »

Saline9515 wrote: post #272
martin-t wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If somebody things he knows better, he shouldn't be allowed to push his views on others from his position of power. All public policies should be subject to public scrutiny. Nobody has any right to dictate other people's lives. For his view to be even considered, he should be required to prove beyond reasonable doubt, that whatever he is against is actually harmful. And after that, only after that, should the voting…

Your propositions are contradictory. If "society" decides to harm itself, and I'm part of it, I'll have to suffer from the choices taken by others.

Are you, personally, harmed by someone having an abortion?

Are you, personally, harmed by someone watching porn?

Maybe it makes society as a whole weaker compared to other societies but that doesn't mean your society actually loses anything. Countries have nuclear weapons and multi-national defense pacts now. Just because China has several times the population of the US and could win a conventional war, doesn't mean it's gonna invade.

We don't live in tribes of a few hundred people who are constantly on the brink of starvation and/or genocide anymore. But many people are still governed by instincts from that environment.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#280

Post by fsckboy »

can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

>Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that.

don't like porn? run a for-pay pornsite, bleeding revenue from the other porn sites, which you will spend fighting porn; also, you'll have better targeted customer lists. extremely effective altruism.

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