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Apple Never Invented Anything

mondaynote.com

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Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#91

Post by mdonahoe »

cheald wrote: post #49
ThomPete wrote: post #21

Apple invented the ability to take geeky stuff and turn it into cool stuff for normal people. That's a pretty big feat in itself.

That's called "marketing". It's not really new.

You are right, but Apple's definition of marketing doesnt end with the billboards or the tv commercials.

Every time you see someone wearing those white earbuds, that's marketing. When your mom is always on her ipad, despite 20 years of lessons from you on how to use a computer, that's marketing. When you are sitting in an airport and you notice the glow of the Apple logo on the back of someone's Macbook Air, that's marketing. When the same dude is still using his macbook, 6 hours into a flight without a powercord, that's marketing. When you walk into an Apple store, and you feel the aluminum unibody... when you unwrap the sturdy yet smooth packaging and the bottom slides out to reveal the device... when computer boots directly to a gray apple logo on a white screen, instead of a DOS prompt for a few seconds, that's marketing.

It takes a lot of work to do Apple style marketing.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#92

Post by mdonahoe »

smartkids wrote: post #75

The iPaq was/is a fantastic device. You could attach peripherals. Try doing that with an iPad. I could put an entire OS on a CF Card and assuming I could boot from the card, the expanded functionality is limited only by the hardware specs. They are durable. I've seen consumer electronics businesses still using them to track inventory. I wish HP would revive the iPaq. My only imagined use for an iPad is as a portable…

People like you are not a large market, unfortunately.

> There's nothing the iPad can do that my open, unlocked hardware cannot do. Your open, unlocked hardware, cannot survive two days with my mother.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#93

Post by mdonahoe »

cromwellian wrote: post #74
podperson wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But 20? It's absurd. If pinch and zoom is such a trivial thing then invent some other thing to use instead. The patent system by-and-large doesn't pick and choose patent durations based on the kind of patent. Theoretical physics and patentable technology are quite different things and the comparison is not helpful. Before patents we had a guild system where people who made almost anything -- pottery, telescopes, po…

Trivial doesn't mean valueless. A "1 click buy" patent is trivial, but forcing everyone to "invent something else instead" (e.g. 2 clicks) is stupid. And what if 2-click is patented? Then the next guy to come along has to have a 3-click system, or some obfuscation that convinces a jury. Pretty soon, consumers are confused, because every website they go to has a radically different user interface brought on by patents…

What about "0 click buy"? Sounds better :)

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#94

Post by potatolicious »

webwright wrote: post #84
potatolicious wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UI and UX are innovations. The silly notion that only hard, technical inventions with academic papers attached are innovative is the reason why Apple has eaten everyone's lunch up till now. "Fit and finish" is as innovative as a new algorithm, it's shocking how much of the industry still treats it as a footnote and a detail, despite the entire history of the tech world since iPhone 1 would indicate.

Ugh, by this logic the first person to use drop-down menus should be the only person to use it (without licensing) for 20 years. Or a hover-event on a link. Or a hyperlink. Or real-time form validation. Or neverending scrolling instead of pagination. Or facebook style side menus on mobile devices. Certainly there is UI innovation, and certainly it can move mountains-- I think arguing that fact is a straw man-- no one…

I think much of our community actually does argue that you can't be innovative with UI (see wintermute's post above).

In any case, the notion that UX is important and innovative in no way justifies the gross abuse of IP law we've seen up till now from everyone involved.

Which leads to...

> "We're just saying that most/all of it isn't worthy of patent protection."

There's a false separation here. IMO almost nothing we do in the software industry is worthy of patent protection, UI-related or otherwise. To point at UI patents and scream foul, while giving a free pass to "real" patents (ones with academic papers behind them) seems misguided.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#95

Post by drblast »

This article is unintentionally an excellent argument against patent protection for Apple's products.

If Apple is a company that uniquely has the talent and taste of a good chef, the patent protection is unnecessary. They will be able to continually outdo other companies that don't have the same talent.

Arguing that a company has so much talent and is so successful that it needs legal protection seems absurd to me.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#96

Post by vacri »

ghshephard wrote: post #59
cromwellian wrote: post #42

One interesting point is he brought up Einstein's invention of relativity. Notice that in the scientific community, humanity has been building upon previous work for centuries with no copyright or patent protection, and nothing more than honor, citation, and shame against plagiarists. The fundamental defense made by many is that without patent protection for software, people would not put much effort into innovating.…

Just to keep things fact based, the recent court case against samsung did not cite the "Pinch-to-zoo-after-finger-contact-has-been-broken-and-restarted patent of 7,812,826. You can read that patent here: http://www.google.com/patents/US7812826 And, even thought that patent was _not_ referenced in the case, you will see it's a particular multi-touch behavior _associated with pinch-to-zoom_ that apple is claiming a pro…

You don't have to contest the patent for it to be suppressing others' design. I once worked for a company that made a humidifying air pump. We had to have the water tank held in with a removable flap rather than a door because our main competitor had patented 'holding the tank in with a hinged flap/door'. Sure, you could fight it in court, down the track, after hardware design (which is much more expensive than people realise). Or you could move onto the next problem and have a slightly inferior product. Patents on trivial things stifle innovation.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#97

Post by gjm11 »

podperson wrote: post #87
linuxhansl wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pinch-and-zoom is a good idea. But it is just that: An idea. Its invention cost no money and society as a whole is not served by granted exclusive monopoly over it to any entity. The entire discussion is turning to be absurd. Is pinch-and-zoom (and friends) all that separates Apple from the competition? In other industry manufacturers learn from each other (seatbelts, suspensions systems, transmissions, etc), but som…

It's a very refined implementation of an idea. Try pinch and zoom on an iPad and then try it on an Android device.

In so far as this is true -- that Android devices' pinch-and-zoom doesn't behave at all the same as iPads', and that this makes them much worse to use -- those Android devices have not copied what Apple did.

(I have no opinion about how much Samsung actually copied from Apple or whether what they did was legal; I haven't looked carefully enough at the case. I'm not passing comment on that. Just saying that you can't reasonably say both (1) that what Apple have rights over is a very refined implementation of pinch-and-zoom that differs from anything you'll see on an Android device, and (2) that a maker of Android devices copied it. At least, not without a further explanation of how they screwed it up so badly.)

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#98

Post by smartkids »

mdonahoe wrote: post #92
smartkids wrote: post #75

The iPaq was/is a fantastic device. You could attach peripherals. Try doing that with an iPad. I could put an entire OS on a CF Card and assuming I could boot from the card, the expanded functionality is limited only by the hardware specs. They are durable. I've seen consumer electronics businesses still using them to track inventory. I wish HP would revive the iPaq. My only imagined use for an iPad is as a portable…

People like you are not a large market, unfortunately. > There's nothing the iPad can do that my open, unlocked hardware cannot do. Your open, unlocked hardware, cannot survive two days with my mother.

I understand the comment. Of course the thought has crossed my mind. But I'm not so sure there's any evidence to support it.

I actually test some of my ideas with people like your mother, and surprisingly (why should I be surprised?) they have little trouble catching on.

What's really amusing is that these things that I have them doing are things that many nerds cannot themsleves do. I've got them using systems and techniques that many nerds won't touch because they think it's too "hard core". It's hilarious.

There are lots and lots of unfounded assumptions about what users can and cannot do.

There are facts, supported by evidence. And then there are assumptions. One requires a bit of work. The other is effortless: you just hit "Submit".

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#99

Post by gergles »

upinsmoke wrote: post #53
cliang wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Are you seriously going to hold up a clickwheel and say it wasn't innovative?" No one's saying that. All that is said is it's not entirely Apple's doing. In this case it was Synaptics.

They helped with the touch wheel, not the mechanical wheel from 1st gen iPod.

And that wheel isn't the "click wheel" which is the touchpad-surface for scrolling and the physical buttons for clicking. The first gen iPod had a mehanical scroll wheel and separate mechanical buttons.

Re: Apple Never Invented Anything

#100

Post by kyro »

cromwellian wrote: post #42

One interesting point is he brought up Einstein's invention of relativity. Notice that in the scientific community, humanity has been building upon previous work for centuries with no copyright or patent protection, and nothing more than honor, citation, and shame against plagiarists. The fundamental defense made by many is that without patent protection for software, people would not put much effort into innovating.…

I don't think you're aware of the sheer magnitude of revenue that pharmaceutical companies make. They often mark-up their drugs by 1000%.
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