Live data from Hacker News

The future is not self-hosted

drewlyton.com

101–110 of 459 posts

Re: The future is not self-hosted

#101
post #30

I strongly agree with the global sentiment. If you can't actually download a copy of a digital content as a mere file, then you can't really host it and serve it. You can't host your own Spotify-clone even if you are allowed to listen to songs. However, you can still download music on Bandcamp to feed your Spotify-clone. You can't host your own your own digital Video Game Store usually because of various DRM, or beca…

Totally. There's a whole other article somewhere in there about the, "If buying isn't owning than piracy isn't stealing" sentiment online. Thanks for reading!

Re: The future is not self-hosted

#102

There has been a big move to web based apps (SAAS) as web-based software has improved. The biggest plus to web based software for the user is that there is no need to install anything. BUT , you are going to be paying a monthly sub as long as you keep using the service. And soon as the service goes down (due to financial or other reasons) - game over man. So there is still a lot to be said for downloadable software,…

Yes! And I think this way of building software is having a come-back with the local-first movement! https://lofi.so/

It's a shame they're using Discord, a centralized silo of proprietary ownership, for community.

Re: The future is not self-hosted

#103
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d do it for free. And if you get hit by a car? Or worse --- maybe you get married and have kids ? One big reason people *buy* service is sustainability/longevity/redundancy. There are no absolute guarantees but I think most commercial endeavors nowadays would bet on AWS/Google/MS/Apple over "Hosting by Joe and Friends".

There is no guarantee that the service you buy will exist tomorrow, and if they go out of business, there is no guarantee you can get your data out before they close the platform.

Yes, exactly as I stated --- there are few guarantees in life. So use your best judgment and place your bets accordingly.

Personally, I'm betting on those who are highly incentivized and have the resources and structure needed to sustain reliable service.

Re: The future is not self-hosted

#104
post #96

> Imagine a world where your library card includes 100GB of encrypted file storage, photo-sharing and document collaboration tools, and media streaming services — all for free. But why should a (public) library be interested in providing such services? For funding? What about costs? On for example censorship/regulations/compliance/maintenance etc? I'm not so sure a publicly funded library would have any interest in d…

Hey! Thanks for the comment!

> But why should a (public) library be interested in providing such services? For funding? What about costs?

Public institutions like libraries are usually funded through government mandates. We as citizens decided that having free access to books is a good thing and nations, states, and municipalities dedicate tax dollars to fund those programs. So, if we decided providing internet-based services through the library was also important, we'd enact mandates for that, too.

Not saying that's likely, but it is possible.

> At-cost service[s] provided by the libraries will probably collapse as soon as a for-profit company comes up with a cheaper plan.

At-cost actually means it couldn't be cheaper (at least if economies of scale are equal). That gets a little hairy because companies like Google can provide services like Photos and Drive for "free" because they make so much money selling search data, but generally speaking that's the deal.

> Also, host by a library still creates centralized service, which comes with all problems that a centralized service inherits. It only shifts the problem, not solving it.

Totally agreed – if there was only one library. But, there are tons! And as I mentioned, if the services are based on interoperable standards, you could easily move your data between services and have them talk to each other so there's no vendor lock-in. Think ActivityPub for files.

Thanks again for reading and engaging in the discussion!

Re: The future is not self-hosted

#105

It's interesting to me that recently people have started equating self hosting with having a physical server in your house. Beyond that, the "how do I talk to other people if it's on my server" thing is generally solvable. Give them an account on your server. Don't want to need to make an account on every friend's server? That's why we have SSO technologies. I don't think. Self hosting and community collaboration nee…

> Self hosting and community collaboration need to be incompatible.

Totally agree, but there's a lot more nuance here. Giving each friend an account on my server would require it be exposed to the public internet which is difficult to manage securely. And SSO doesn't really make this very convenient because that means everyone would have to sign in and sync to everyone's servers which is a lot of work for the user. It's a UX problem.

The solution as I see it here is services that can interoperate and sync files across hosts. So, my friend's Alice and Bob can both have their photos synced to a separate server and can choose which photos to share to my server. Separate but connected.

Thanks for reading and for your comment!

Re: The future is not self-hosted

#106

One company comes to mind that is uniquely positioned to capitalize on the current situation by offering a convenient self-hosting solution: Ubiquiti. Despite their pretty bad missteps 5 years ago, their UniFi product range is still very decent and user-friendly for SOHO/SMB networking, and they seem to have the appetite to continue expanding their product line into adjacent markets. I have deployed simple UniFi setu…

Super interesting idea! Thanks for reading!

Re: The future is not self-hosted

#107

> Which raises the question: do they even own those books? nop, but legislators should really force that anything bought without "deadline" also doesn't randomly disappear/cost extra no matter if you bought a license or not in additions license with clear deadline should always be required to have a "be aware that this product has only a limited guaranteed availability of ... days/month/years _dialog_" which you need…

Couldn't agree more – thanks for reading and commenting!

Re: The future is not self-hosted

#108

I can't see community-hosting taking off. I do not trust anybody telling me about E2E encryption that I can not prove. I barely trust Google . I trust the long bearded neighborhood nerd much less than most companies. Even if I probably am that person in my neighborhood. But nobody should trust me, and I am not going to tell them to trust me. Even if everything is encrypted, I can almost guarantee that the community s…

Yeah, trusting people and systems is hard. But we live in a society and trust is just part of the game. For me, I am far more likely to trust a community of people that all build, operate, and own a service we all rely on than a company that will sacrifice anything for profit.

Thanks for reading and commenting!

Re: The future is not self-hosted

#109
post #37

There have been solid efforts with niche adoption that have quite nice UX like Umbrel [1] that allows installing all the mentioned and a ton more open-source apps [2] just by using a UI. It was spawned as bitcoin node hardware+software combo but expanded and is now primarily about self-hosting. The rise of better home internet connections worldwide will make this even more attainable for more people. At least on my l…

So interesting! I'll have to check those out! Thanks for reading and commenting!

Re: The future is not self-hosted

#110
post #61

I sometimes wonder about "managed hosting" (or whatever it is called). For instance, some providers like Hetzner or Infomaniak offer a "Nextcloud managed instance". So you pay a subscription and they maintain your Nextcloud instance for you. Which is presumably simpler and safer than doing it yourself at home. On such an instance, one can share a folder with a friend, for instance. And I think Nextcloud is even worki…

Yeah, I think this is a super interesting path! Federation of Nextcloud would be crazy. Thanks for reading and commenting!
Post reply on HN