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Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

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Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#161

Post by danielscrubs »

mzitelli wrote: post #17

Brazil central bank introduced Pix a few years ago. It took over the country as the public basic infrastructure for money transfer. Totally free and instantaneous transactions between people and companies, available to all banks. Then, just last week, the US presidency launched an investigation considering Pix an unfair trade practice against the US. Actions like that may show the current direction of the US governme…

People don’t really believe me when I say I went to the U.S. and had to sing the national anthem every day in class.

There’s no other place that protects its companies so fiercely, meritocracy be damned.

Great for investors though!

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#162

Post by lmz »

Loughla wrote: post #154
55555 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in Thailand. Fraud is a much smaller issue because it’s a push-based system. You cannot withdrawal from someone else’s account just by knowing the number, unlike with credit cards.

What about fighting charges? In the US, if I flag a charge on my credit card it's immediately cancelled and they deal with it. How does that work?

Not well is my guess. You best treat it as a cash equivalent, because it's a push method.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#163

Post by demaga »

akvadrako wrote: post #145
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #94

India has had UPI since 2016 now and recently overtook Visa and Mastercards global transaction volume with 650 million transactions per day [1]. These payment processors seem to be basically levying a 1-3% tax on a nations entire GDP and enforcing their own ideas of what transactions should or shouldn't be allowed. With UPI and Pix etc. paving the way and showing its possible, it actually sounds insane to give so muc…

The fees are capped at 0.3% in EU and most countries have their own systems that are more popular. The reason the credit card monopolies exist is they work globally.

But vast majority of people make most their transactions domestically. Why cater for the minority? Also, both can exist.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#164

Post by notpushkin »

thimabi wrote: post #49
mzitelli wrote: post #17

Brazil central bank introduced Pix a few years ago. It took over the country as the public basic infrastructure for money transfer. Totally free and instantaneous transactions between people and companies, available to all banks. Then, just last week, the US presidency launched an investigation considering Pix an unfair trade practice against the US. Actions like that may show the current direction of the US governme…

I got in this thread with the expectation of seeing a comment like yours, so thank you for that. I think what worries the U.S. more is the likelihood of Pix spreading around the world. It’s such a great public program that I believe many countries will eventually adopt it, or adopt some version of it. In fact, AFAIK some places already have it, like Thailand and Malaysia. Consumers like it because it is widely availa…

> AFAIK some places already have it, like Thailand and Malaysia.

Also Vietnam (Napas247), Singapore (PayNow), Philippines (QR Ph), Japan (lots different systems), China (WeChat/Alipay, I think?), Russia (SBP), Belarus (ERIP, in a sense), and the whole of EU (SEPA transfers).

One problem is, most of them don’t really work for you if you’re a foreigner. Moreta (YC S24) is doing something in SEA, and I’ve seen another service for visitors in India, but I think exchange rates wouldn’t be too good (compared to something like Wise, maybe on par with regular banks though).

https://moretapay.com/, https://ale.sh/r/moreta (affiliate link)

https://wise.com/, https://ale.sh/r/wise (affiliate link)

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#165

Post by omgwtfbbq123 »

isodev wrote: post #147
pavlov wrote: post #13

The credit card duopoly is another instance where the EU has done a good job with regulation, but everyone just takes it for granted until they’re reminded how much worse the rest of the world has it. In the EU, card payment fees are capped at 0.2% for debit cards and 0.3% for credit cards. In the US, these interchange fees are about 2%. US businesses pay over $100 billion annually in these fees to card networks. If…

The EU (the ECB) is actively working towards a system similar to SEPA (Single Euro Payments Area) but for cards [0]. This would enable card transfers to also become faster (SEPA is instantaneous even cross-border within the EU) also allow for operations not depending on Visa or Mastercard. There is a major EU effort to develop an alternative 'instant payment' system that doesn't depend on Visa or Mastercard called We…

wero is a private company, from Belgium, not an EU initiative.

In the same vibe you have Lydia in France that is successful.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#166

Post by BomberFish »

Here in Canada, Interac has somewhat displaced that (even though most people still use Visa/Mastercard for transactions with businesses). That being said, it's especially useful for transfers between individuals as the transaction fees are relatively low, which makes services like PayPal or Cash App much less appealing domestically.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#167

Post by StanislavPetrov »

jimbob45 wrote: post #103
mzitelli wrote: post #17

Brazil central bank introduced Pix a few years ago. It took over the country as the public basic infrastructure for money transfer. Totally free and instantaneous transactions between people and companies, available to all banks. Then, just last week, the US presidency launched an investigation considering Pix an unfair trade practice against the US. Actions like that may show the current direction of the US governme…

Can anyone please steel man the opposition argument for Pix?

From the comments it seems that it is essentially the same as using cash as far as no buyer protection if you want to challenge a charge like you can with a credit card.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#168

Post by CalChris »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #160
CalChris wrote: post #159

> According to the Federal Reserve, over 100 billion debit card payments were made in 2021, compared to 51 billion credit card payments. In terms of transaction value, debit cards processed $4.6 trillion, while credit cards reached $4.9 trillion, indicating that credit transactions tend to be about double in average value. Interesting that debit cards are twice the swipes that credit cards are. Didn't know that. I wo…

Just a quick note, no one has ever become wealthy from their credit card rewards. I don’t know what your system is, but it sounds like you enjoy it, so you do you. And yes. Cash and debit cards have always subsidized credit.

The final straw was a trip to the UK. My debit card had foreign transaction fees and then I was waiting in the cattle call area for a BA flight seeing people significantly more relaxed coming out of airport lounges.

My system, so to speak, is really nothing. Sign up bonuses, (American Express wanted me bad), read the fine print and work the benefits, use the right card for the given transaction.

Does this make sense? No, it does not. Yet here we are. I've always detested this stuff yet merchants are forcing me to take this benefit. So I take it.

FWIW, 99% of my transactions are with my phone. So there is no flex involved. My iPhone makes the transaction virtually the same as with a debit card.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#169

Post by doikor »

isodev wrote: post #147
pavlov wrote: post #13

The credit card duopoly is another instance where the EU has done a good job with regulation, but everyone just takes it for granted until they’re reminded how much worse the rest of the world has it. In the EU, card payment fees are capped at 0.2% for debit cards and 0.3% for credit cards. In the US, these interchange fees are about 2%. US businesses pay over $100 billion annually in these fees to card networks. If…

The EU (the ECB) is actively working towards a system similar to SEPA (Single Euro Payments Area) but for cards [0]. This would enable card transfers to also become faster (SEPA is instantaneous even cross-border within the EU) also allow for operations not depending on Visa or Mastercard. There is a major EU effort to develop an alternative 'instant payment' system that doesn't depend on Visa or Mastercard called We…

There is also the Digital Euro project. Though no timeline exists yet.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.ht...

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#170

Post by plumeria »

Anarch157a wrote: post #118
forinti wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started using Pix, because it's the best way to do business with Chinese ecommerce sites. You don't have to give your credit card details and refunds go straight back to your account. In fact, it really impressed me that Aliexpress got it working before many Brazilian sites.

There are plenty of companies in Brazil that offer PIX payments to foreign e-shops. Valve has been accepting PIX for some time now, for example.

Can you suggest some?
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