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A list of changes to make it easier to build beautiful and walkable places

chrisbarber.co

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Re: A list of changes to make it easier to build beautiful and walkable places

#151

Post by aerostable_slug »

morkalork wrote: post #62
aerostable_slug wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the whole reason the West Oakland homeless encampment has such an enormous garbage pile problem I lived in West Oakland for several years during the first .com bubble. People with houses there often didn't sign up for garbage service (or if they had, they didn't pay). I had to put a damned padlock on my garbage can just so I didn't have my own garbage dumped out and replaced by the freeloaders living next to me. Th…

That kind of looks like a capitalism and privatization problem from here where trash is a municipal service and paid for by taxes?

The problem at hand is antisocial behavior, not how garbage service is handled in Oakland. Giving my neighbors effectively free garbage service wouldn't meaningfully address it.

You can't just keep giving them free things and hope they'll magically turn into productive citizens, especially when 'free' really means "paid for with someone else's money." They just laugh at you and take the handouts, just like they laughed at me for being such a sucker that I paid my bills every month. This is the reality of dealing with antisocial behavior, and it would behoove more commentators (and policymakers) to familiarize themselves with it.

Re: A list of changes to make it easier to build beautiful and walkable places

#152

Post by rickydroll »

wpm wrote: post #132
rickydroll wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multifamily housing is not terribly popular here in New England, mostly because developers are cheap ass bastards and skimp on noise proofing. When my partner was renting in a two-family house, we could hear the landlord's child running, yelling, screaming, and dropping things. It was hell. It was one of the primary motivations for us to get our own house. My only experience with good multifamily housing was in Eston…

Imagine though, some people might not be able to afford a place with more sound-proofing. Mandating it doesn't magically make it free. This is how we ended up in the situation we have in the first place where its too expensive to get a roof over your head because of hundreds of little rules and stipulations. Would I prefer to sleep under a highway overpass or sleep in an apartment where the bedroom doesn't have a win…

Just because someone thinks they can stand higher noise levels doesn't mean they should. Urban noises and light levels are associated with a significant number of adverse health outcomes. Like food and medications, housing shouldn't compromise your health.

The original start of this whole thread included a list of things the author wanted to see happen, which falls into the same category as legislating preferences, or, as I see it, a baseline that is higher than what we have today.

Re: A list of changes to make it easier to build beautiful and walkable places

#153

Post by hexis »

harmmonica wrote: post #115
hexis wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not ask normal people to start walking in dangerous neighborhoods in order to increase foot traffic and make it safer, those first folks are at great risk of just getting hurt. I would, however, try to keep any safe area with good foot traffic that way, or even increase foot traffic.

I'm not sure downvotes are the right way for folks to disagree with you though I'm thinking some folks think you're trolling. But I'll assume you aren't trolling and since I asked you to reply to my question I thought I would just clarify: I wasn't suggesting that you stick people in harm's way in order to decrease crime (that would very much be the tail wagging the dog). What I was saying is that when increased numb…

But, of course, you have a problem with the direction of causation in that case. Streets with many people on it are safe, but did the people make it safe, or did the safety bring the people?

Re: A list of changes to make it easier to build beautiful and walkable places

#154

Post by hexis »

zozbot234 wrote: post #138
SoftTalker wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people are there because of the help. Every time a municipality expands support for the homeless and addicted they get more homeless addicts. Surrounding areas will in fact put people on buses and ship them out to towns where there is more support.

This is why Housing First is such a brilliant idea. Give them help, but require them to be stably housed (i.e. on a viable path out of long-term homelessness) before they can access the help.

The results have been that much of that housing ends up with the same problems homeless shelters do.

Re: A list of changes to make it easier to build beautiful and walkable places

#155

Post by hexis »

CalRobert wrote: post #91
hexis wrote: post #9

These are all great, I love city life and would embrace every single item, but without addressing the dramatic decline in public safety in virtually all US cities, none of these will matter at all.

But drivers slaughter 40,000 people a year (give or take) in the US. A driver is the biggest risk to your kids.

I have never had a car try to run me down, but I have had multiple vagrants chase me and my family through the streets.

Re: A list of changes to make it easier to build beautiful and walkable places

#156

Post by hexis »

chaps wrote: post #102
hexis wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unreasonable standard for reaching conclusions, I suspect if you thought about it, you would agree.

Vibes are also an unreasonable standard. :)

Vibes and observations are very different. I am judging by my direct experience.

Re: A list of changes to make it easier to build beautiful and walkable places

#158

Post by hexis »

enaaem wrote: post #145
hexis wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in the US we've done a great job educating a subset of the population about how dangerous cars are. In the wealthy, walkable neighborhood I live in, everyone is very sensitive to the dangers of cars. Cycling and walking are common, with many kids being involved too. That said, this understanding is very unevenly distributed, in large part because our neighborhood also gets more police attention and is general…

I don’t think it is just about awareness. Americans have simply accepted that cars are dangerous and thus traffic is dangerous and people have adjusted their whole lifestyle around it. For example, it’s normal to drive your kids everywhere.

Cars are dangerous. When crime began to decline after the early 90s, American cities had a renaissance with huge numbers of people moving to them. Now, with the rampant public disorder, we are back to suburbs dramatically outgrowing the center cities.

Re: A list of changes to make it easier to build beautiful and walkable places

#159

Post by SoftTalker »

zozbot234 wrote: post #138
SoftTalker wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people are there because of the help. Every time a municipality expands support for the homeless and addicted they get more homeless addicts. Surrounding areas will in fact put people on buses and ship them out to towns where there is more support.

This is why Housing First is such a brilliant idea. Give them help, but require them to be stably housed (i.e. on a viable path out of long-term homelessness) before they can access the help.

My town set up an apartment building specifically to house the "chronically" homeless. It cost a fortune to build (something like twice the cost per square foot as normal, or maybe more). The rationale was exactly that, give them stable housing so they can work on their addictions and life skills.

Fast forward five years, the place is a shithole. Roach-infested, apartments severely damaged and filthy, needles and garbage everywhere. Police, fire, and EMS spending a disproportonate amount of resources there.

People who are chronically homeless and addicted do not know how to live in houses. If you give them housing they will destroy it or they people they associate with will destroy it.

Sobriety has to come first. Some people won't accept that. At some point you have to stop accomodating their behavior and just say "no, that is not an acceptable way to live, and you can't do that here."

Re: A list of changes to make it easier to build beautiful and walkable places

#160

Post by hexis »

marssaxman wrote: post #65
hexis wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime is down since the 90s and up since 2018.

Yes, that is shown in the data I linked, but the rebound is much smaller than the previous drop.

And yet, public disorder is increasing. Sure, it is better than the 90s, but that can hardly be the standard. Those days were awful, we can and should do much better than that.
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