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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#31

Post by hollywood_court »

TheAmazingRace wrote: post #17

It's crazy how the P320 has such a bad reputation, while the P365, a 9mm micro-pistol by Sig Sauer, is a phenomenal piece of kit by comparison. I purchased mine in 2018 and it's seen thousands of rounds put through it with zero issues encountered.

Agreed. It seems that Sig really dropped the ball with the P320. My top 3 most used hand guns are the CZ P-10 F, the Sig P365, and the Sig P322.

I honestly never thought I'd ever buy a modern handgun unless it was made by Sig. Until I tried the CZ. The P-10 F is my favorite full sized striker fired pistol. And that's coming from a guy that owns 30+ Sig pistols.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#32

Post by sonofhans »

jeffbee wrote: post #16
tshaddox wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMHO there’s no reason to conceal carry if you’re going to do it without a round chambered. Why is that your opinion? Surely there's a wide variety of plausible scenarios where carrying a concealed weapon without a round chambered is much better than not carrying a concealed weapon.

[flagged]

Yes, the only sensible reply in the thread. Everything else is theory-crafting.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#33

Post by aerostable_slug »

jleyank wrote: post #2

This seems to suggest carrying with a chambered round. Is this prudent without an external threat? They can drop the thing, or some kind of impact can yield a “design problem”. Can’t they just chamber when there’s a need?

Tactical encounters often progress quickly enough that there's insufficient time to chamber a cartridge before the weapon may need to be fired.

The context of who is carrying these pistols in this command may also help: they're issued to the Security Forces guarding strategic nuclear weapons (and their delivery systems). It is the highest priority security mission in the military.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#34

Post by Filmatic »

rhcom2 wrote: post #30
jeffbee wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There is definitely thinking among some who CC they're going to be John Wick but "good guy with a gun" is definitely not "totally imaginary". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_shooter#/media/File:200...

2.8% is even worse than I’d have guessed.

2.8% of an already rare event is technically non-imaginary, but also definitely rounds down to imaginary.

[edit] on top of that, is it even a one-digit percentage of that 2.8% of a rare event in which having a round chambered made any difference? Yet there are people confidently posting as if it’d be absurd to carry without a round chambered. That’s plainly nuts.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#35

Post by jeffbee »

rhcom2 wrote: post #30
jeffbee wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There is definitely thinking among some who CC they're going to be John Wick but "good guy with a gun" is definitely not "totally imaginary". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_shooter#/media/File:200...

Estimate, if you can, the fraction of the "good guy" episodes that critically hinged on the 1s it takes to rack the slide.

Personally I believe it's a good feature if a guy has to give it a think for 1-2 seconds before blowing away the guy in front of him in the line at Whataburger.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#36

Post by giantg2 »

TheAmazingRace wrote: post #17

It's crazy how the P320 has such a bad reputation, while the P365, a 9mm micro-pistol by Sig Sauer, is a phenomenal piece of kit by comparison. I purchased mine in 2018 and it's seen thousands of rounds put through it with zero issues encountered.

Why would it be crazy when they're completely separate systems?

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#38

Post by chiph »

jleyank wrote: post #2

This seems to suggest carrying with a chambered round. Is this prudent without an external threat? They can drop the thing, or some kind of impact can yield a “design problem”. Can’t they just chamber when there’s a need?

It depends on your job in the USAF. I was a security augmentee[0] and we did not chamber a round. But the Airman who died likely protected missile silos, which are "no-lone zones" and they would be carrying with a round in the chamber.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-person_rule

The P320 is known to have accidental discharges for civilian owners (honestly - don't buy one). But Sig Sauer has stated that the M18 military version did not have those problems. We will need to wait on the results of the investigation to find out.

[0] An extra duty typically assigned to junior enlisted - we only armed up during exercises. Which brings back a story - we were waiting on the trucks to take us to our posts, and the room was full of Airmen armed with M16s and M60 machine guns. And we were all watching Justin Wilson cooking up some delicious Cajun food on the TV.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#39

Post by aerostable_slug »

OJFord wrote: post #19
hollywood_court wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be personal preference, but IMHO there’s no reason to conceal carry if you’re going to do it without a round chambered. I’m a huge Sig collector and I’ve been a fan of theirs since the 90s. I’ve carried a Sig daily for 20+ years. I only carried a P320 for a few months until I finally downsized to the P365. But I’ve got to admit that their PR and response to these incidents is not a good look. But I am a bit…

And what's the reason for USAF personnel to conceal carry on a USAF base? Article doesn't even suggest it was.

They weren't concealed carrying.

These are Security Forces personnel guarding strategic nuclear weapons and their delivery systems. To illustrate the priority of their mission, Global Strike Command ordered that the troops normally carrying pistols be issued assault rifles in their stead.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#40

Post by smithkl42 »

nosignono wrote: post #15
nabla9 wrote: post #4

Since all services have adopted it, idiot proofing should be the main feature of the gun because it will be carried with idiots all the time and casualties accumulate.

This wasn't a case of an idiot, except perhaps placing the muzzle in a direction that a human would be present. The gun was in the holster, and the entire holster was removed from the belt and placed on a desk. There's nothing in that course of action that would allow a finger or anything to get into the trigger well. The gun should absolutely not have gone off.

Where did you get those details? I've read a couple stories on this incident and haven't seen that mentioned.
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