Live data from Hacker News

Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

modernengineeringmarvels.com

411–420 of 783 posts

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#411
post #392
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because people don't want to have oil changes, emission checks, exhaust gas etc. on their EV. If they really need a long range, they will probably just buy a combustion engine car.

Perhaps, but other than the upcoming Scout, I’m not even sure it’s an option for EVs, in the US.

BMW i3 has/had a REX version and when I researched it people seemed to agree it’s the least reliable part about owning it. But that might be it!

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#412
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to have gone electric (bought a car in September) but I rent and don't have any way to charge at my residence. How do we solve the renters-that-cant-charge-their-cars problem?

Well if you have a Tesla, I believe you can sit in it and it offers games to play on its iPad to kill the time.

Your Tesla has an iPad? Or you're saying someone sitting in a car can play on an iPad if they have one?

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#413

Good to have more data points and evidence, but this seems extremely well established by now? Zero tailpipe emissions, drastically removed brake dust, slightly higher tire wear (due to weight), but much better overall than ICE.

>drastically removed brake dust It will be very interesting to see the data for the same car that has many powertrain versions for example the Lexus UX with the UX 200 (ICE), UX 300h (hybrid) and UX 300e (EV) to test which one the best and the worst in term of brake dust residue. My hypotheses is that for brake dust residue the best is hybrid, 2nd will be ICE and the 3rd will be EV. This is due to the fact that the E…

I think buyer demographics are gonna play hugely into it. Some makes and models are highly popular among the drivers who are on the low side of the bell curve and basically never hit the brake when not stopping because they're almost never coming upon slower traffic. Some makes and models are highly popular on the other side of the peak of the bell curve where the drivers are always hitting the brake way more than the median or average. An ICE Tacoma may very well use way less brake than a EV Altima because the venn-diagram of people who drive like a bat out of hell and the people who buy Tacomas is approximately two circles.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which is the whole point of hybrids Part of the point, not the whole point. Regenerative breaking is absolutely a win; but there can also be a significant benefit from allowing the ICE to remain in the RPM "sweet spot" rather than moving around a larger range.

> […] but there can also be a significant benefit from allowing the ICE to remain in the RPM "sweet spot" rather than moving around a larger range. Which is why I'm surprised electric cars with range extenders aren't a bigger thing: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_extender Have the powertrain be all-electric, and have a battery pack, but for those with range anxiety have a small generator as an option that woul…

BMW tried that with the i3, it wasn't particularly popular. An engine, fuel system and a generator are all relatively complex additions compared to just putting the same cost and vehicle space into more batteries, and the public charging networks are definitely up to the task by now (having been EV-only for almost 5 years now).

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing with good hybrids. The "gas pedal" becomes a "I want to go faster/slower" pedal, its position has zero impact on the RPM. As an anecdote: A security company I know only buys Toyota Hybrids for their guards just because of that. They have a habit of driving cars like they stole them and normal ICE cars break down from that kind of abuse. Hybrids won't let you abuse them, they pick the RPM and you dea…

Do all Toyotas do that? I'm pretty sure that my dad's Corolla will rev the engine when I press the gas if the engine is already running. I'm also surprised for the first few minutes when I drive it how little "engine braking" it has (my habit is from riding a big motorbike).

Dunno. My both Priuses did it and the company was specifically using the Yaris Hybrid.

Both will rev on neutral, but when the gear selector is on Drive there is no link between the pedal and RPM.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#416
post #17
post #4

An an EV owner, I can testify that the tyre wear more than makes up for the reduction in brake dust. I’ve had to change tyres every 10K miles.

What are you doing to your tires that they only last 10k miles? I think that might be a driver error issue, because my EV (a heavier sedan) basically never needed tire replacement barring me running over a screw or something.

I can roach a set of economy tires in 20k but I slide through four ramps a day if there's no traffic. I can see someone in something modern that has 3x the power, 1.5 the weight and takes a way softer lower profile tire roaching them in less.

Lower profile rims also beat up tires way harder if you drive hard because the lack of sidewall flex lets you put more force to the ground which has to go through the tread of the tire to get there.

Modern tires for modern cars also bias toward soft and high wearing because there's pretty much no other way to keep higher end vehicles stuck to the ground with the power to weight they're making these days.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#417
post #349
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, you can make much lighter and lower range electric cars without all those heavy batteries, and boost the range with diesel when needed. Very attractive in principle. Most cars are not using their full range all the time, for a lot of people a 50 mile range car would be more than enough 98% of the time, but that remaining 2% means that people end up buying 200 mile range cars instead. But then, do you end up remo…

I thought about PHEV but in the end went full EV simply because it seemed to me with two whole power trains that's 2x the components to go wrong/need maintenance.

Oh I agree completely. I'm driving an old diesel now but I have no desire to get a hybrid, I'd get a pure EV if I were to buy a new car. But there are some tempting things in principle about plug-in hybrids

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#418
post #349
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, you can make much lighter and lower range electric cars without all those heavy batteries, and boost the range with diesel when needed. Very attractive in principle. Most cars are not using their full range all the time, for a lot of people a 50 mile range car would be more than enough 98% of the time, but that remaining 2% means that people end up buying 200 mile range cars instead. But then, do you end up remo…

I thought about PHEV but in the end went full EV simply because it seemed to me with two whole power trains that's 2x the components to go wrong/need maintenance.

That same insight applies to regular hybrids, and yet Toyota’s hybrids are legendary for their durability. There’s a reason half the cabs where I live are Prius station wagons, and it’s not their efficiency, judging by how they’re driven.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing with good hybrids. The "gas pedal" becomes a "I want to go faster/slower" pedal, its position has zero impact on the RPM. As an anecdote: A security company I know only buys Toyota Hybrids for their guards just because of that. They have a habit of driving cars like they stole them and normal ICE cars break down from that kind of abuse. Hybrids won't let you abuse them, they pick the RPM and you dea…

Do all Toyotas do that? I'm pretty sure that my dad's Corolla will rev the engine when I press the gas if the engine is already running. I'm also surprised for the first few minutes when I drive it how little "engine braking" it has (my habit is from riding a big motorbike).

Depends on the configuration. If they are equipped with a CVT+electric engine on the shaft, then that's the case: they rev to the sweet spot (which on gas engines is 4000-5000 rpm on acceleration? Depending on expected engine load I assume) and the speed is controlled by hydraulic force applied on the CVT.

With other hybrids: depends on the generator they have installed, but it matches the consumption in amps by the engine in order to "go" if it is not directly coupled with the transmission, or they just downshift to accelerate with help of the electric engine.

I am assuming a lot here: Toyotas (specially RAV4) mount CVTs among others, assuming pure electric generator by the ICE or coupled to it... So it depends a lot on specific configuration.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#420

Good to have more data points and evidence, but this seems extremely well established by now? Zero tailpipe emissions, drastically removed brake dust, slightly higher tire wear (due to weight), but much better overall than ICE.

>drastically removed brake dust It will be very interesting to see the data for the same car that has many powertrain versions for example the Lexus UX with the UX 200 (ICE), UX 300h (hybrid) and UX 300e (EV) to test which one the best and the worst in term of brake dust residue. My hypotheses is that for brake dust residue the best is hybrid, 2nd will be ICE and the 3rd will be EV. This is due to the fact that the E…

> that makes the brake dust residue comparable to ICE if not worst based on the approximately 30% extra vehicle weight for the battery.

Did you miss pretty much all data on EV brakes, notably that they get used so little they’ll rust to slick and manufacturers have to implement de-rusting cycles to ensure they can actually do something? Your hypothesis is nonsensical on its face. Calling it a hypothesis is insulting. Even to flat earthers.

Post reply on HN