Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite • Hacker News Board

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#161

Post by bzbarsky » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:46 AM UTC

rkischuk wrote: post #92

zaphar wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a minor condition. It was a staph infection. Don't let the term bugbite mislead you. His son wasn't in the hospital for a bugbite. He was in the hospital for a life threatening infection from an antibiotic resistant infection. That is far from minor. Disclaimer: I'm not arguing for PPACA in any way but if you are going to base you argument on billing for a "minor" condition then make sure it's actually a mi…

So... MRSA Staph Infection... what is the cost to correctly diagnose? And what is the cost of the antibiotics? I'm not a doctor, but most non-boutique antibiotics are dirt cheap. I didn't intend to trivialize the illness. I more meant that this could happen to _anyone_. And if this is the cost for things that can happen to anyone, we have a real problem on our hands. Much like it's a problem that a basic, no-complica…

> but most non-boutique antibiotics are dirt cheap

The whole problem with MRSA is that you need boutique antibiotics to treat it! You don't have to be a doctor to know that, by the way; Wikipedia will tell you that part.

Agreed with you on the baby delivery part. Though it only costs that much in a hospital. In states where alternate arrangements involving a midwife are legal (not Illinois!) the cost can be much more reasonable for a no-complications birth.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#162

Post by clarky07 » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:47 AM UTC

clarky07 wrote: post #137

tptacek wrote: post #82

A young coworker had an ATV accident. It was ugly, but not so bad that they weren't on IM within days talking about work. Total bill: just shy of $100,000. A friend's son had appendicitis. Uneventful appendicitis. Total bill: neighborhood of $35,000. Add to this: tens of millions of people are, despite any debilitating medical conditions or even better-than-even likelihood of incurring anomalous medical expenses at a…

Just because the system is broken, doesn't mean we need socialism, and it doesn't mean that a software developer should support anything in particular. I personally, won't support anything that makes me pay for your health insurance. I pay plenty for mine, I have no desire to pay for yours. We can work to fix the broken system, but keeping everything the same and then taxing us more to have the government foot the bi…

Again, why the downvote? The problems in our system are far bigger than Obamacare can solve. Read these anecdotal comments lower in the thread - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4465802 - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4466161

note that obamacare isn't socialism by any stretch of the imagination, and that isn't good for those that want socialism. it also isn't good for people who want free-market. it's the worst of both worlds.

that being said...

I never remotely suggested that our current system is good, or working as it should. I think it sucks. I also take note of how bad a job our government does at running...pretty much anything they try to run (possible exception to NASA). I also note the stories from countries that have socialism. Everyone loves it because it pays for the doctor when they have a something minor or chronic. Then I see the stories of the people dying on waiting lists because they can't get the procedure done in time when it would have been done in America. Due to this, I've come to the perfectly reasonable conclusion that I don't want either our system or socialism. There is another option, and that is to actually fix some of the major problems in our system.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#163

Post by tptacek » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:54 AM UTC

lox wrote: post #134

tptacek wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life expectancy is a poor proxy for health care effectiveness. By some methodologies, once you take out things like auto accidents, the United States snaps right back into first place in those rankings. Meanwhile, in disease-by-disease rankings, the US routinely leads. We do spend a lot for health care in the US, and we probably aren't realizing comparable value, but it is also probably not true that the actual quali…

Why is it a poor proxy? What would be a better one?

Something that wasn't confounded with deaths by suicide and high-speed automobile accidents, both of which are so anomalously high in the US that when you factor them out of life expectancy the rankings are totally different.

Say what you will about the worldwide quality of mental health care, but there's not a whole lot a good hospital can do once you've set out to harm yourself, and that one particular tragically underserved health problem is not what people are thinking about when they suggest "Americans pay more money to get less than what Europeans do". That last notion is dubious at best.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#164

Post by clarky07 » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:58 AM UTC

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #159

clarky07 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1865 - Slavery was something that states shouldn't have the right to. They also shouldn't allow stealing, murder, etc. Turns out after the Civil War we didn't in fact repeal the 10th amendment. 2006 - No, as for a state and nationally are 2 different things. But even if he did, why should that matter here. I never said anything about Romeney, I don't really like him, and he most certainly was not my choice in the pri…

Slavery is not an enumerated right, to control or to tax, for federal powers listed in the Constitution. Therefore it should fall to the states, or their respective citizens. A war was fought over this very issue. States lost. Get over it. Functionally, Massachusetts Health Care Insurance Reform Law is similar to Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. One is state law, and the other one federal law. Questions we…

Actually it is. See the 13th amendment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Uni...

A war was fought over the issue, and we decided to add that particular issue to the constitution through the amendment process that the founders allowed for in the constitution. It turns out, that after the war, we didn't repeal the 10th. That's totally still there - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_S...

Facts are pesky things, aren't they?

And Reagan appointed Kennedy. What's your point?

I see you also skipped over the part where I'd be ok with amending the constitution to add it. I wouldn't support it, but I'd be ok with it if it actually passed.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#165

Post by ScottBurson » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 6:01 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #110

rkischuk wrote: post #76

This is putting things exactly backwards. The argument is roughly "Treating a minor condition cost $24k, which could wipe people out financially, therefore PPACA is important." Where is the outrage over this price? What part of PPACA does ANYTHING to reduce this cost? PPACA does essentially 2 things: 1) It makes insurance "affordable" for people who previously couldn't obtain it at all. 2) Drastically increases deman…

We also need to increase the pool of doctors. We probably don't so much need to deal with malpractice insurance, since that fix doesn't (to employ a congenial metaphor) change the exponent in the Big-O cost of health care. We need to make it simpler to get drugs on the market, but we also need to walk the tightrope of doing that while regulating pharma marketing, particularly to medical practices. We need to restruct…

I think we really would do best to attack the cost explosion problem at the same time we attack the coverage problem. Fixing the coverage problem is mostly a matter of political will (granted that the opposition has been bitter). Getting costs under control requires far-reaching changes to the health care system itself and will take years at best.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#166

Post by clarky07 » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 6:01 AM UTC

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #159

clarky07 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1865 - Slavery was something that states shouldn't have the right to. They also shouldn't allow stealing, murder, etc. Turns out after the Civil War we didn't in fact repeal the 10th amendment. 2006 - No, as for a state and nationally are 2 different things. But even if he did, why should that matter here. I never said anything about Romeney, I don't really like him, and he most certainly was not my choice in the pri…

Slavery is not an enumerated right, to control or to tax, for federal powers listed in the Constitution. Therefore it should fall to the states, or their respective citizens. A war was fought over this very issue. States lost. Get over it. Functionally, Massachusetts Health Care Insurance Reform Law is similar to Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. One is state law, and the other one federal law. Questions we…

In other news, I'm up far later than I want to be debating something I have almost no control over, with someone who describes himself as an idiot.

"Honey come to bed"

"I can't, somebody is wrong on the internet"

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#167

Post by FixThisPOS » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 6:40 AM UTC

"to Texas, for a “better business environment” than you can apparently find in California. I think that means that the CEO doesn’t have to pay state taxes and is allowed to hunt low-level employees for sport."

Um, no. California is an offensive rip-off, which practically begs businesses to leave with such maneuvers as charging an $800 annual "tax" on ZERO OR NEGATIVE income. And that's not counting any municipal taxes, such as Los Angeles trolling around for another handout.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#168

Post by rdtsc » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 6:49 AM UTC

> an accident or a disease or any of a billion other random, faultless happenstances — isn’t going to send them to the poor house.

What is he talking about? It doesn't make sense. He complains about high costs. Then he praises the health care act but I don't see how health care act controls costs. Not having a single payer option, not having cost controls make it a stupid and broken.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#169

Post by rdtsc » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 6:53 AM UTC

eli wrote: post #145

ysopex wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it that you can't go to a medical facility and tell the intake nurse or admin person you're not agreeing to any procedure that's not covered by your insurance. Wouldn't that put the onus back on them? Anything not covered instantly becomes a freebie or a lawsuit? Why do hospitals and clinic get away with this crap when auto mechanics and plumbers can't?

What makes you think anyone else would take on the liability of vetting your care for you? And for free?

If a law was passed that they have to that's what. If a law was passed that any hospital billing mistake in favor of the hospital should be fined by a 10x fine of the amount on the first offence and a much higher one on subsequent offences. That kind of stuff, stuff that would protect individual citizens when they get sick and are most vulnerable. In a normal country that's what would happen.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#170

Post by rdtsc » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 6:59 AM UTC

clarky07 wrote: post #136

_delirium wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is, oddly enough, basically the model for the current guaranteed-issue reform (scheduled to become operational in January 2014), despite the fact that the governor who passed it doesn't want to take any credit for it.

the point is this is a states rights issue. Massachusetts has every right to do this if they want. The federal government shouldn't be doing this.

Why is gambling with citizens health and encouraging predatory and extortionist behavior by hospitals and insurance conglomerates on people who are sick and vulnerable an obvious states issue, while stuff like 'right to have guns in your house' is a federal law.