Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite • Hacker News Board

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#151

Post by clarky07 » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:07 AM UTC

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #148

clarky07 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the point is this is a states rights issue. Massachusetts has every right to do this if they want. The federal government shouldn't be doing this.

1865 called. Said that States lost. 2006 called. Gov. Romney supports ObamaCare^WRomneyCare. 2012 Supreme Court called as well. Said ObamaCare was constitutional.

1865 - Slavery was something that states shouldn't have the right to. They also shouldn't allow stealing, murder, etc. Turns out after the Civil War we didn't in fact repeal the 10th amendment.

2006 - No, as for a state and nationally are 2 different things. But even if he did, why should that matter here. I never said anything about Romeney, I don't really like him, and he most certainly was not my choice in the primaries.

2012 - now that is a pretty good point. I think they were wrong, but that is neither here nor there. For now I'll just have to deal with it, but that doesn't mean I can't support Congress repealing it, which they are perfectly capable of. Alternately, I can hope for a future non-Democrat court to actually read the constitution and overturn this recent decision.

(Alternately we could amend the constitution and actually add language that makes socialist healthcare part of it. while i wouldn't support it, that would in fact be preferable to me.)

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#152

Post by evolve2k » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:09 AM UTC

eli wrote: post #145

ysopex wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it that you can't go to a medical facility and tell the intake nurse or admin person you're not agreeing to any procedure that's not covered by your insurance. Wouldn't that put the onus back on them? Anything not covered instantly becomes a freebie or a lawsuit? Why do hospitals and clinic get away with this crap when auto mechanics and plumbers can't?

What makes you think anyone else would take on the liability of vetting your care for you? And for free?

Because that's how it works in developed countries.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#153

Post by fstephany » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:14 AM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #10

vegardx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life saving treatment is usually like this all over the world, and in Denmark they will give you a bill unless you're apart of EU, as you'd have the EU health insurance (EHIC), which is free. This card is also valid in countries in the Schengen Area, like Norway, Switzerland and Lichtenstein.

Many countries bill for emergency stays. US emergency rooms definitely send bills, even if it's acute live-saving treatment. Even Canada, which has national healthcare for residents, will bill nonresidents who visit an ER. If you're from another country, you may get away with just not paying one of those bills, because if it's life-saving care they have to provide it before verifying you can pay. But they'll still tr…

Right. I'm currently on a work-holiday visa in Canada (BC). I went to an ER and had to pay ~$825 upfront, before seeing a doctor.

My travel insurance reimbursed everything but you'd better have money on your credit card...

Before getting my work holiday visa, I had to prove that I had medical insurance covering me during my stay in Canada.

[edit: I'm from Belgium]

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#154

Post by clarky07 » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:16 AM UTC

shrughes wrote: post #150

clarky07 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why the downvote? there is nothing in the constitution about the federal government providing healthcare. Ergo, based on the 10th amendment it is the right of the states. Massachusetts can do whatever they want. The federal government cannot.

Everybody already knows about the existence of a "states' rights" opinion on health care, and it's not consistent with Republicans' ideology on the subject. You were downvoted accordingly for making statements that have no basis in reality. You should reconsider believing or sharing your own opinions in the future.

What does Republican ideology have to do with my comment? How does that make my comment have no basis in reality. Also, I will not reconsider believing or sharing my own opinions in the future. I'm quite sure my freedom of speech is covered.

Note that my comment has since been upvoted, so at least I'm not the only one on hn who has read the constitution.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#155

Post by shrughes » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:22 AM UTC

clarky07 wrote: post #154

shrughes wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody already knows about the existence of a "states' rights" opinion on health care, and it's not consistent with Republicans' ideology on the subject. You were downvoted accordingly for making statements that have no basis in reality. You should reconsider believing or sharing your own opinions in the future.

What does Republican ideology have to do with my comment? How does that make my comment have no basis in reality. Also, I will not reconsider believing or sharing my own opinions in the future. I'm quite sure my freedom of speech is covered. Note that my comment has since been upvoted, so at least I'm not the only one on hn who has read the constitution.

Your comment was in reply to one about the Republican candidate's inconsistent behavior when it comes to healthcare reform, defending it as an example of states' rights. But Republicans want government's hands off their Medicare at the state level as well.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#156

Post by javert » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:25 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #87

javert wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having experienced emergency care in both Denmark and the U.S., this is also the main reason I won't relocate to the U.S. until this is sorted out. LOL. Go to the emergency room now in the US, with a real emergency, wait for hours. After this is sorted? Wait for days, maybe? Our health system is completely broken in every way, and building up more bureaucracy is just going to make it worse. I am counting on hospital…

Exactly what part of an emergency room visit is going to change in 2014, when PPACA is fully implemented? Please be as specific as you can, while limiting the detail you provide to the "amount of time taken to see someone at an emergency room" example you've used in this comment.

I expect the continued growth of socialized medicine to continue the trend of less and less competence among medical professionals, and less and less medical professionals period (particularly doctors--which seem to be in acute shortage already). So, nothing will change overnight, but this certainly isn't going to allow things to get _better_, which would eventually happen in a more free-market medical system.

Americans are exceptionally good at everything the free market touches (consider the tech world). Medicine could, and should, be a lot like going to the vet. Extreme competence, speed, and low price. The difference? There honestly isn't that much of a difference, except veterinary practice is pretty much a free market.

By the way, I've personally been forced to undergo unreasonably waits at the ER (I was kicked out of the building by a security guard because I wouldn't take a seat or stand - I couldn't physically do either, and I went and laid down in a parking lot outside). I've also seen a loved one hurt--potentially very severely over what could have been the case, but who knows--by not getting competent attention during a stroke. And there is at least one other bad story I won't get into here.

By the way, I do think my stories are representative of a larger trend. The above-mentioned incidents occured in different hospitals mixed between the east and west coast. That still isn't enough to prove anything. But I'm hearing complaints from a lot of people. Also, if you talk to someone applying to med school, you'll see that the number of doctors is being artificially restricted.

The public discussion about healthcare is missing a huge component, which is: why is our healthcare so completely shoddy and incompetent today? What can we do to change that? And, why aren't there enough doctors? I'm talking totally independent of the _cost_, which admittedly is also a problem.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#157

Post by lexande » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:33 AM UTC

vegardx wrote: post #68

fernly wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your legal status in Denmark, and how did you achieve it? Are you a "resident alien" or an immigrant or what? What restrictions/hoops did you have to jump to get permanent residence status? What did it cost?

It's almost impossible to get a permanent citizenship in any of the scandinavian countries (besides Svalbard, which is a part of Norway, but really strange case). You either have to be some sort of highly educated person or marry someone with a permanent citizenship, and even then there are some restrictions. Inside of EU and Schengen you should be able to get a limited work permit. Then you are usually covered by lo…

That seems like a pretty low bar for "almost impossible", as I would expect most HN readers are both 1) highly educated and 2) single, and so the two avenues you mention are amongst the most accessible to them.

There are far more difficult places to gain citizenship (e.g. Liechtenstein, China).

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#158

Post by clarky07 » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:36 AM UTC

shrughes wrote: post #155

clarky07 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does Republican ideology have to do with my comment? How does that make my comment have no basis in reality. Also, I will not reconsider believing or sharing my own opinions in the future. I'm quite sure my freedom of speech is covered. Note that my comment has since been upvoted, so at least I'm not the only one on hn who has read the constitution.

Your comment was in reply to one about the Republican candidate's inconsistent behavior when it comes to healthcare reform, defending it as an example of states' rights. But Republicans want government's hands off their Medicare at the state level as well.

Do you understand what "state's rights" means? It means that the states are free to make up their mind on a matter without the federal government interfering.

You are also confusing one person with a whole party. Just because he is running as a Republican, does not in fact mean that every Republican agrees with him on every issue. He is by all account a very moderate Republican.

Some Republicans might support have a state health care law similar to the one in Mass. Clearly Romney did. Many others would not in fact support that. That is their right. It is also somebody else's right to "want government's hands off their Medicare at the state level." That is a perfectly valid opinion, and it can be debated at the state level.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#159

Post by TheAmazingIdiot » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:38 AM UTC

clarky07 wrote: post #151

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1865 called. Said that States lost. 2006 called. Gov. Romney supports ObamaCare^WRomneyCare. 2012 Supreme Court called as well. Said ObamaCare was constitutional.

1865 - Slavery was something that states shouldn't have the right to. They also shouldn't allow stealing, murder, etc. Turns out after the Civil War we didn't in fact repeal the 10th amendment. 2006 - No, as for a state and nationally are 2 different things. But even if he did, why should that matter here. I never said anything about Romeney, I don't really like him, and he most certainly was not my choice in the pri…

Slavery is not an enumerated right, to control or to tax, for federal powers listed in the Constitution. Therefore it should fall to the states, or their respective citizens. A war was fought over this very issue. States lost. Get over it.

Functionally, Massachusetts Health Care Insurance Reform Law is similar to Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. One is state law, and the other one federal law. Questions were abound if PPACA was constitutional. SCOTUS said YES 5-4.

Quote: "Alternately, I can hope for a future non-Democrat court to actually read the constitution and overturn this recent decision."

Oh, and I believe the swing vote was Chief Justice John Roberts. Wasn't he a conservative justice, nominated by George W. Bush, after William Rehnquist passed? Facts are pesky things, aren't they?

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#160

Post by ScottBurson » Sun, Sep 02, 2012, 5:44 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #95

abtinf wrote: post #73

For complex reasons, I was without insurance for a couple days last week. I happened to have an appointment schedule. I went into the clinic and, since it was my first time there, I filled out a stack of paperwork. And then they told me my insurance was inactive. So I figured, whatever, I'll pay it out of pocket and file for reimbursement. I asked how much the specific service I was requesting would cost. And they ha…

Last year, my daughter caught a stomach bug and for a few days woke up each morning nauseous. We took her to her pediatrician and were surprised to find out that "waking up nauseous" is a Big Deal; it can be a neurological symptom. We were pretty sure that wasn't it (there were... other symptoms... corroborating our "stomach bug" hypothesis) but the doctor was adamant: if she kept waking up and puking, she'd need to…

Wow.

I have on a few occasions floated the idea of making it illegal to insure more than 90% (say) of procedure costs -- there would always be a mandatory 10% copayment. No one I mentioned this to ever seemed to understand the point. I don't know that the proposal is actually workable, but I think you can see where I'm coming from. If patients had to know all the prices because they had to pay some fraction of them, the whole system would look very different.