Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What to expect from Debian/Trixie

michael-prokop.at

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 211 posts

Re: What to expect from Debian/Trixie

#11

Post by CamouflagedKiwi »

api wrote: post #7
josephscott wrote: post #5

"The temporary-files directory /tmp is now stored in a tmpfs" - https://www.debian.org/releases/trixie/release-notes/issues.... I am not a fan of that as a default. I'd rather default to cheaper disk space than more limited and expensive memory.

Wait... that means a misbehaving program can cause out of memory errors easily by filling up /tmp? That's a very bad default.

A misbehaving program can cause out of memory errors already by filling up memory. It wouldn't persist past that program's death but the effect is pretty catastrophic on other programs regardless.

Re: What to expect from Debian/Trixie

#12

Post by tlamponi »

blueflow wrote: post #6

TIL there are 14 subtly different naming schemes for network interfaces[1]. "predictable" my ass. [1] https://manpages.debian.org/testing/systemd/systemd.net-nami...

14 different schemes multiplied by some acting slightly different in every version. Sure you can pin it, but that fixes only their internal back and forth, is only possible via the kernel cmdline and there is no guarantee for how long the old versions will stay available, as they deprecated much more invasive things in the past (e.g., cgroupv1) I'd expect them to also drop older versions here, breaking ones naming again.

And sure, one can pin interfaces to custom names, but why should anybody have to bother with such things?!

I like systemd a lot, but this is one of the thing they fumbled big time and seemingly still aren't done.

Pinning interfaces by their MAC to a short and usable name, would e.g. have been much more stable as doing that by PCI slot, which firmware updates, new hardware, newer kernel exposing newer features, ... changes rather often. This works well for all but virtual functions, but those are sub-devices of their parent interface anyway and can just get named with a suffix added to the parent name.

Re: What to expect from Debian/Trixie

#13

Post by _mlbt »

josephscott wrote: post #5

"The temporary-files directory /tmp is now stored in a tmpfs" - https://www.debian.org/releases/trixie/release-notes/issues.... I am not a fan of that as a default. I'd rather default to cheaper disk space than more limited and expensive memory.

> You can return to /tmp being a regular directory by running systemctl mask tmp.mount as root and rebooting.

>The new filesystem defaults can also be overridden in /etc/fstab, so systems that already define a separate /tmp partition will be unaffected.

Seems like an easy change to revert from the release notes.

As far as the reasoning behind it, it is a performance optimization since most temporary files are small and short lived. That makes them an ideal candidate for being stored in memory and then paged out to disk when they are no longer being actively utilized to free up memory for other purposes.

Re: What to expect from Debian/Trixie

#14

Post by chromakode »

josephscott wrote: post #5

"The temporary-files directory /tmp is now stored in a tmpfs" - https://www.debian.org/releases/trixie/release-notes/issues.... I am not a fan of that as a default. I'd rather default to cheaper disk space than more limited and expensive memory.

For users with SSDs, saving the write wear seems like a desirable default.

Re: What to expect from Debian/Trixie

#16

Post by sherr »

Looking forward to the release.

I use Debian Stable on almost all the systems I use (one is stuck on 10/Buster due to MoinMoin). I installed Trixie in a container last week, using an LXC container downloaded from linuxcontainers.org [1].

Three things I noted on the basic install :

1) Ping didn't work due to changed security settings (iputils-ping) [2]

2) OpenSSH server was installed as systemd socket activated and so ignored /etc/ssh/sshd_config*. Maybe this is something specific to the container downloaded.

3) Systemd-resolved uses LLMNR as an name lookup alternative to DNS and pinging a firewalled host failed because the lookup seemed to be LLMNR accessing TCP port 5355. I disabled LLMNR.

Generally, Debian version updates have been succesful with me for a few years now, but I always have a backup, and always read the release notes.

[1] https://linuxcontainers.org

[2] https://www.debian.org/releases/trixie/release-notes/issues....

Re: What to expect from Debian/Trixie

#17

Post by sugarpimpdorsey »

gilbertbw wrote: post #8
sugarpimpdorsey wrote: post #2

Fair warning: the Trixie update does not allow you to roll back. It is in theory possible but practically it not only fails every single time, but leaves the system in an inconsistent and broken state. (Code for 'soon to be unbootable'). What this means is when you find out stuff breaks, like drivers and application software, and decide the upgrade was a bad idea, you are fucked. More notably, some of the upgrade is…

The page about upgrading [0] does have this warning: Back up your data Performing a release upgrade is never without risk. The upgrade may fail, leaving the system in a non-functioning state. USERS SHOULD BACKUP ALL DATA before attempting a release upgrade. DebianStability contains more information on these steps. [0] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade

Yet Windows will let you roll back an upgrade with a single click within 10 days.

Of course anyone can restore from backups. It's a pain and it's time consuming.

My post serves more as a warning to those who may develop buyer's remorse.

Re: What to expect from Debian/Trixie

#18

Post by jimmaswell »

sherr wrote: post #16

Looking forward to the release. I use Debian Stable on almost all the systems I use (one is stuck on 10/Buster due to MoinMoin). I installed Trixie in a container last week, using an LXC container downloaded from linuxcontainers.org [1]. Three things I noted on the basic install : 1) Ping didn't work due to changed security settings (iputils-ping) [2] 2) OpenSSH server was installed as systemd socket activated and so…

The OpenSSH change is madness if it's not a bug. I hope it's not intentional.

Re: What to expect from Debian/Trixie

#20

Post by pluto_modadic »

josephscott wrote: post #5

"The temporary-files directory /tmp is now stored in a tmpfs" - https://www.debian.org/releases/trixie/release-notes/issues.... I am not a fan of that as a default. I'd rather default to cheaper disk space than more limited and expensive memory.

finally they're using a tmpfs. thank goodness <3
Post reply on HN