Live data from Hacker News

Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

eod.com

111–120 of 215 posts

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Participation in the automobile risk pool is mandatory in all 50 states, even in states with no-fault accident laws. Nobody questions whether auto insurance companies are really insurers. Similarly, while huge companies aren't required to insure their commercial activities, virtually all of them do. Mandatory coverage is orthogonal to the question of whether health insurance is a proper insurance scheme, or some kind…

Participation in the automobile risk pool is mandatory in all 50 states Only if you own a car and drive it on public roads.

Oh, so you mean, "only if you don't live and work in one of a prohibitively small number of major metro areas in the US".

For all intents and purposes, auto insurance is effectively mandatory for most Americans. It's for a similar reason that many states revoke driving privileges for parents who don't comply with child support.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#112
> We’ve got a strategy for dealing with the COBRA expiration, but it’s complicated and requires a lot of hoop jumping and is more than a little silly.

Whatever the author's strategy is, it sounds like he's quite misinformed. There are no hoops required to get HIPAA guaranteed issue coverage when COBRA runs out. All insurers are required to offer it regardless of preexisting conditions. It will cost more, but coverage is automatic with no medical information required.

The usual procedure is to simultaneously apply for underwritten coverage and guaranteed issue. If the underwritten policy is declined, the guaranteed issue takes effect. If you know you'll be declined, you can skip the medical history on the application and apply for guaranteed issue only. You have 60 days after COBRA runs out to apply.

You are also eligible if your insurance ends because the company goes out of business without making COBRA available.

Any insurance company or agent can give you more information, or search for:

California HIPAA guaranteed issue

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#113
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8% sounds great. US currently spends around 16% of GDP on health care every year. I think the majority of Americans would support a universal health care system that provides far more coverage at half the cost. Instead our total spend is expected to double by 2020. Source: http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/28/news/economy/healthcare_spen...

Worth noting that the US leads Europe in outcomes for serious illnesses (particularly cancer), and the US provides access to specialists in days where other countries often have multi-week or even multi-month delays.

Yes, but, europeans generally see a healthcare provider more often and are more often diagnosed before they reach an acute stage. If you look at the graphs [1][2][3] that compare per capita expenditures per country with life expectancy per country. You'll see that they are generally getting equivalent or better outcomes at less than half the cost.

And I can tell you that for my own part, even with health insurance, the deductible is so high that it might as well not exist as far as basic checkups and doctor visits go.

1 http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/spend.php

2. http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2009/12/the-cost-of-care.h...

3. http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2011/03/health_cos...

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#114

If he's still in the hospital and thinks the bill is $23K he's got a surprise coming. The bills will keep coming for months. Many items may be billed multiple times. Writer is going to have to invest several man-weeks in dealing with this, minimum. I talked to a friend of mine who received some treatment recently. He made sure the hospital was "in network", but apparently someone who came in to give a shot was "out o…

Anesthesiologists are the worst offenders. My experience is that none of them are in network. You think you have everything covered and along comes this bill that is as big as everything else.

Woe to you if you are uninsured. I had minor heart surgery nearly two decades ago. The bill was something over $80K. The insurance company disallowed most of it, bringing it down to $20K of which I had to pay $2K. Except for the Anesthesiologist.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#115
The people who think the US health care world is A-OK are the people who have never been uninsured nor been uninsurable. As much as I want to build my own company, my life and job revolve around my ability to get insurance because I had the gaul to have surgery once upon a time.

People should not expect something for nothing, but there has to be a better place than we are at now. Because this place sucks!

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#116
I think we have to start with the American Medical Association. It is in their interests to keep prices high and keep doctors in their McMansions. First follow the money, who benefits from high prices? Insurance companies, medical suppliers, and the American Medical Association gets to enforce the medical monopoly.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#118
post #113
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that the US leads Europe in outcomes for serious illnesses (particularly cancer), and the US provides access to specialists in days where other countries often have multi-week or even multi-month delays.

Yes, but, europeans generally see a healthcare provider more often and are more often diagnosed before they reach an acute stage. If you look at the graphs [1][2][3] that compare per capita expenditures per country with life expectancy per country. You'll see that they are generally getting equivalent or better outcomes at less than half the cost. And I can tell you that for my own part, even with health insurance, t…

Life expectancy is a poor proxy for health care effectiveness. By some methodologies, once you take out things like auto accidents, the United States snaps right back into first place in those rankings. Meanwhile, in disease-by-disease rankings, the US routinely leads.

We do spend a lot for health care in the US, and we probably aren't realizing comparable value, but it is also probably not true that the actual quality of care in the US lags that of Europe.

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Participation in the automobile risk pool is mandatory in all 50 states Only if you own a car and drive it on public roads.

Oh, so you mean, "only if you don't live and work in one of a prohibitively small number of major metro areas in the US". For all intents and purposes, auto insurance is effectively mandatory for most Americans. It's for a similar reason that many states revoke driving privileges for parents who don't comply with child support.

You have to own a car, though. The state makes you buy car insurance because you can do a lot of damage to other people and their property with a car. They own the roads, so they're responsible for making sure you can pay for that damage.

Texas, for instance, doesn't actually make you buy insurance. You only have to prove that you can be financially responsible for the damage you could cause [1].

Why is this relevant? You made the claim that "The sole purpose of the mandate is to make free-riding on the insurance market unlawful"

The medically uninsured only pose a financial threat to themselves. It's only through laws that make taxpayers responsible for the medical costs of the uninsured that they pose a threat to the rest of us. This mandate won't change anything in that respect. It will just make the line from taxpayer money to person who can't pay for his medical bills harder to follow.

[1] http://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/car-insurance.php

edited for clarity

Re: Greg Knauss's 10-year-old son's $23,800 bug bite

#120
post #58

The US healthcare system combines everything that is bad about a state-run socialized system with everything that is bad about privately funded care. To add insult to injury, we do not pay substantially less taxes than, say, Canadians. If we paid Costa Rican taxes I'd be fine with it, but we don't.

This is why I think even if you are in favor of socialized health care, you really ought to be against the PPAFA. It's not "socialized health care", the glorious ideal you have in your head where everybody takes care of everybody and it's all smiles everywhere. It's an ungodly abomination of a thousand pages of hastily thrown together legislation with a bajillion moving parts, dozens of newly created agencies, what is basically gibberish in terms of who is paying for what driven more by what voters needed to hear than any resemblance to reality, and then after all of that, was brutally beaten by the legislative process until it could barely assemble a coalition to drag it across the finish line in a horrifically compromised state.

Trying to explain why this is a good idea and trying to explain why socialized health care is a good idea are two things that should not be done at the same time. If you think it's bizarre how many people aren't buying into the whole nothing-but-smiles theme now, wait until after a few years of experience with this turd.

The whole "Oh, the monstrous heartless conservatives just want to throw granny over the cliff so they can save a buck" is just a propaganda smokescreen put up so you don't look too much at the actual product you're pitching beyond the catchphrase level. Personally I feel some people are being pretty careless about what will actually happen to real people while they are moving abstract political footballs labelled "socialized healthcare" around without caring what's behind the abstraction. I know the abstract progress may feel good today, but the reality isn't going to stay behind the abstraction boundary.

Post reply on HN