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12ft.io Taken Down

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Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#141

Post by micromacrofoot »

toader wrote: post #136
micromacrofoot wrote: post #36

Most media outlets these days are just a pile of dark patterns. My local newspaper charges $1/4-weeks for N months, then rockets to $30/4-weeks after (and it still has ads and an absurd number of trackers!). There are 13 4-week spans in a year, rather than the usual 12 months everyone else prices on. If you try to cancel online they give you repeat offers to temporarily lower the price back to $4/mo (until recently y…

Do you think they have to raise their subscription prices because many people are stealing the content?

If they thought that they wouldn't be begging me to pay $4 instead of $30 whenever I try to cancel.

I wonder if they've ever attempted to calculate the cost of being incredibly unpleasant as a service.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#142

Post by toader »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #141
toader wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think they have to raise their subscription prices because many people are stealing the content?

If they thought that they wouldn't be begging me to pay $4 instead of $30 whenever I try to cancel. I wonder if they've ever attempted to calculate the cost of being incredibly unpleasant as a service.

I don't have the context to comment on the interpersonal skills of the media outlet. If the price is $30 after the introductory price, then the price is $30. You disagreeing with the price or their sales tactic doesn't entitle you to steal their content.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#144

Post by micromacrofoot »

toader wrote: post #142
micromacrofoot wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they thought that they wouldn't be begging me to pay $4 instead of $30 whenever I try to cancel. I wonder if they've ever attempted to calculate the cost of being incredibly unpleasant as a service.

I don't have the context to comment on the interpersonal skills of the media outlet. If the price is $30 after the introductory price, then the price is $30. You disagreeing with the price or their sales tactic doesn't entitle you to steal their content.

I don't need to be entitled, I can just do it. Call the police, no one cares.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#145

Post by rckt »

toader wrote: post #140
rckt wrote: post #72

Not sure how is this illegal. It’s like saying that listening to a song that is played anywhere, but your paid service is illegal. Anything public and online is accesible. These guys just motivated a bunch of other people to build more tools to fuck with paywalls.

If you created software and sold a license for it, and I pirated it, would that be acceptable? They create a product, set the price, you choose to pay or not.

It's a bit different in practice with media. You can hear/read/see it anywhere. You can read someone's newspaper in the public transport or listen to a song in a cafeteria or watch something at your friend's house. Yes, somebody paid for it anyway, but there's no way to control the following spread of it.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#146

Post by immibis »

ranger_danger wrote: post #139
immibis wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Internet Archive operates within the law (mostly), while archive.foo is blatantly illegal, which is why it has so many domain names, among other things. Think Anna's Archive vs Library of Congress. The future is going to be some kind of bland corporate internet of useless corporate things (only people with a team of lawyers can afford to operate any service on this dark-forest light-network), paired with some kin…

> The Internet Archive operates within the law It most certainly does not. The archive is home to petabytes of pirated content, and Jason Scott himself has told people many times on many different platforms/interviews to intentionally upload copyrighted content, because "if we had to police everything, we would have no content... so upload first, then let the rightsholder deal with requesting takedowns". All you have…

The Internet Archive does turn a blind eye when it comes to pro-actively moderating uploads, but they're not required to do that. They do follow takedown requests as the law proscribes (including taking down lots of stuff that is legal and really shouldn't be taken down, because the takedown laws have no exceptions for it).

The Internet Archive tries to push boundaries sometimes - all corporations do. IA having a link to "software" and then not pro-actively moderating that section is like Uber not getting medallions for its taxi driver employees who it calls contractors. It's not the same as the flagrant disobedience from archive.today. IA did flagrantly disobey one time, and it almost catastrophically deleted them from existence, to the detriment of everyone.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#147

Post by toader »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #144
toader wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have the context to comment on the interpersonal skills of the media outlet. If the price is $30 after the introductory price, then the price is $30. You disagreeing with the price or their sales tactic doesn't entitle you to steal their content.

I don't need to be entitled, I can just do it. Call the police, no one cares.

Then just say you're a thief, no need to pretend there is any other issue than you are OK with stealing when you deem a companies practices to be disagreeable to your own.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#148

Post by toader »

rckt wrote: post #145
toader wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you created software and sold a license for it, and I pirated it, would that be acceptable? They create a product, set the price, you choose to pay or not.

It's a bit different in practice with media. You can hear/read/see it anywhere. You can read someone's newspaper in the public transport or listen to a song in a cafeteria or watch something at your friend's house. Yes, somebody paid for it anyway, but there's no way to control the following spread of it.

Sure, if you hear or see something in a public space, but don't you agree that deliberately bypassing their means of protecting their IP is theft?

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#149

Post by fragmede »

NicuCalcea wrote: post #94
m82labs wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want RSS with micropayments. I want to consume information in my own interface, and am willing to pay. I am not willing to pay for a full subscription to a publication when I only find a few articles a year that I want to read. I want Spotify for text, but with a business model that makes sense for all involved.

Micropayments have been tried plenty of times and never succeeded. People say they'd be willing to pay, but they're not.

They haven't been tried plenty of times, what are you talking about? It's been discussed since the dawn of the Internet and the ideas been around since forever, but actual attempts have been very limited in scope. The rails are there though, they're just not user friendly (http://micropayments.fyi).

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#150

Post by tshaddox »

Henchman21 wrote: post #115
tshaddox wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the goal to fund more creators, or just to have fewer people with a supposed obligation to fund creators?

Well, I dunno what goals you have, but my goals include paying for the content I read and not paying for the content I don't. This is something I already do. Paying multiple parties for access to content isn't some maddening problem where the masses are crying out for a solution. Perhaps I'm utterly missing the point in this thread?

That's well and good, but I don't mean your goals for yourself. I'm asking what our goals are (or what they ought to be) for how people broadly interact with creative works which are easily copyable.
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