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MakeShift: Security analysis of Shimano Di2 wireless gear shifting (2024)

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11–20 of 54 posts

Re: MakeShift: Security analysis of Shimano Di2 wireless gear shifting (2024)

#11

Wireless gear shifters? What was wrong with a cable? Even if you don't want it to be a mechanical connection, you could still at least send data over that instead of wirelessly...

In cycling looking good is half the battle. Eliminating all the cables (except brake lines) looks way cleaner and therefore faster and cooler.

Re: MakeShift: Security analysis of Shimano Di2 wireless gear shifting (2024)

#12

Wireless gear shifters? What was wrong with a cable? Even if you don't want it to be a mechanical connection, you could still at least send data over that instead of wirelessly...

Racing cyclist: can I spend some money and save 2 grams of weight?

Touring cyclist: can I patch this with some duct tape and a radio antenna I ripped off a car?

Re: MakeShift: Security analysis of Shimano Di2 wireless gear shifting (2024)

#13

Wireless gear shifters? What was wrong with a cable? Even if you don't want it to be a mechanical connection, you could still at least send data over that instead of wirelessly...

There is electronic shifting over cable too. Electronic shifting in general is far better than cable both in terms of performance and maintenance.

Bizarrely Shimano has been very slow to adopt wireless, even as the radio chips must be much cheaper than all the custom cable assemblies (and you can sell it for more!)

Re: MakeShift: Security analysis of Shimano Di2 wireless gear shifting (2024)

#14
post #3

Wireless gear shifters? What was wrong with a cable? Even if you don't want it to be a mechanical connection, you could still at least send data over that instead of wirelessly...

It's much easier to maintain, as headsets have become integrated it's become harder and harder to work with anything that runs from the brake levers through the frame.

In terms of maintenance, most cyclists would benefit more from internal gear hubs and carbon belts. From a product development POV, seems better to make auto shifting IGHs. Indeed this is how share bikes are designed.

Re: MakeShift: Security analysis of Shimano Di2 wireless gear shifting (2024)

#15

Wireless gear shifters? What was wrong with a cable? Even if you don't want it to be a mechanical connection, you could still at least send data over that instead of wirelessly...

Not needing to route cables (or wires) along and/or through the bike frame is a huge improvement. Anecdotally, everyone I know that has adopted Di2 seems to love it. The cost of these systems is negligible for the type of buyer who is shopping for high-end groupsets.

Counterpoint - the benefits of wireless are there but the worry of your unit dying in the middle of a ride now replaces the concern of whether your derailleur is tuned and ready to go. It's easy for a shop to assemble, but now I'm worried about shorting the control unit of my di2 which would be a pricey fix. I have two bikes: one with and one without di2. Both work just as well and one costs much more.

I do love disc brakes though.

Re: MakeShift: Security analysis of Shimano Di2 wireless gear shifting (2024)

#16
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's much easier to maintain, as headsets have become integrated it's become harder and harder to work with anything that runs from the brake levers through the frame.

In terms of maintenance, most cyclists would benefit more from internal gear hubs and carbon belts. From a product development POV, seems better to make auto shifting IGHs. Indeed this is how share bikes are designed.

Yes, but for racing bikes, which are the target market for wireless shifting in 2025, the efficiency losses of an internal hub are a non-starter.

The casuals whose bikes haven't seen a wrench since they were assembled aren't buying wireless groupsets. For them: we're in agreement about belts and internally geared hubs.

Automatic shifting has yet to prove itself to be more than a curiosity. A 20-something year old Autobike came into the shop I was wrenching in. It still worked shockingly well for being covered in rust. In good shape it would be an entirely adequate solution, if only it solved a problem anyone had.

My money is on e-bikes entirely supplanting any demand there may have ever been for automatic shifting on a bicycle. The motors have enough oomph that they make a lot of shifts unnecessary if you're not looking to maximize speed/battery life/whatever.

Re: MakeShift: Security analysis of Shimano Di2 wireless gear shifting (2024)

#17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not needing to route cables (or wires) along and/or through the bike frame is a huge improvement. Anecdotally, everyone I know that has adopted Di2 seems to love it. The cost of these systems is negligible for the type of buyer who is shopping for high-end groupsets.

Counterpoint - the benefits of wireless are there but the worry of your unit dying in the middle of a ride now replaces the concern of whether your derailleur is tuned and ready to go. It's easy for a shop to assemble, but now I'm worried about shorting the control unit of my di2 which would be a pricey fix. I have two bikes: one with and one without di2. Both work just as well and one costs much more. I do love disc…

Honestly, routing the cables through the headset introduces so many tight bends, I suspect you'll get better long-term reliability with wireless. Plus, there are no connections to make waterproof aside from the battery.

Re: MakeShift: Security analysis of Shimano Di2 wireless gear shifting (2024)

#18
I've always wondered what happens if you are in a big pack with these kind of devices

There's no stepping on each others signal? Error-correction?

Garmin is ending ANT+ because it's not-encrypted and Europe won't allow that anymore but it would be fascinating to do an ANT+ capture next to a marathon of 50,000 people, how does it deal with all that signal noise (BLE is on same frequency)

Re: MakeShift: Security analysis of Shimano Di2 wireless gear shifting (2024)

#19
post #18

I've always wondered what happens if you are in a big pack with these kind of devices There's no stepping on each others signal? Error-correction? Garmin is ending ANT+ because it's not-encrypted and Europe won't allow that anymore but it would be fascinating to do an ANT+ capture next to a marathon of 50,000 people, how does it deal with all that signal noise (BLE is on same frequency)

Is that really why it's going away? I just sort of figured that BLE chipsets had gotten so cheap these days that it was more economical. Can't see why you'd care about encrypted data for something which you could measure pretty trivially via other means, if you were close enough to pick up the signal.

Re: MakeShift: Security analysis of Shimano Di2 wireless gear shifting (2024)

#20
post #11

Wireless gear shifters? What was wrong with a cable? Even if you don't want it to be a mechanical connection, you could still at least send data over that instead of wirelessly...

In cycling looking good is half the battle. Eliminating all the cables (except brake lines) looks way cleaner and therefore faster and cooler.

Ahem, I believe it's pronounced "aero"
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