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The United States withdraws from UNESCO

state.gov

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Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#491

Post by ribosometronome »

dijit wrote: post #360
kennywinker wrote: post #251

The US is complicit in the intentional starvation of gaza’s people by israel. At least 15 people have starved to death in the last 24 hours, including an infant. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-war-hunger-childre... Ragequitting UNESCO over their recognition of palestine is a small part of the project of supporting the ethnic cleansing of gaza and the west bank.

Sweden and the US are “kinda cozy” (I would say at least, from an inside perspective on how Sweden seems to lean in to US interests including copyright enforcements and so forth). However Sweden was the first country to recognise Palestine. Is it possible that the pulling out of UNESCO is further in-line with Trumps “we want to focus on America” fluff, similar to the threats of pulling out of NATO and the actual pull…

>Is it possible that the pulling out of UNESCO is further in-line with Trumps “we want to focus on America” fluff, similar to the threats of pulling out of NATO and the actual pulling out of the Paris Accords.

Why would you give them the benefit of the doubt when they directly state that they're withdrawing over the decision to admit Palestine?

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#492

Post by CWuestefeld »

hackyhacky wrote: post #355
pkilgore wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama didn't do anything (other than follow the law at the time): https://web.archive.org/web/20141224180231/https://foreignpo...

The is a good point: the decision was made by Congress, not by Obama. Although I disagree with that decision, that is the correct way to make it. Now, Trump is withdrawing unilaterally, without Congressional approval. Remember when presidents followed the law?

I've been complaining about the increasing power being ceded to the Presidency, like, forever now. This isn't specifically a GOP or DEM thing, it's been happening consistently at least since FDR, and probably even beyond that.

That said, the one area where the Constitution really does give the President a fairly free hand is in foreign policy.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#493

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

landl0rd wrote: post #449
Angostura wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say “the UN doesn’t work” apparently because “working” means it being a source of soft power for the US. It had several remits, but its most important is probably the one to prevent a world war. It’s designed specifically as a talking shop to help countries find other ways of resolving disputes than kill people - and promote international understanding . It’s far from perfect, but in general it does a pretty good…

American dollars shouldn’t go to things that aren’t sources of soft or hard power for us, and they should be clawed back from things that are sources of soft power for china.

> American dollars shouldn’t go to things that aren’t sources of soft or hard power for us, and they should be clawed back from things that are sources of soft power for china.

Fair enough. It's worth noting though, that China benefits when the US withdraws from stuff like this.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#494

Post by AnimalMuppet »

kennywinker wrote: post #251

The US is complicit in the intentional starvation of gaza’s people by israel. At least 15 people have starved to death in the last 24 hours, including an infant. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-war-hunger-childre... Ragequitting UNESCO over their recognition of palestine is a small part of the project of supporting the ethnic cleansing of gaza and the west bank.

[flagged]

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#495

Post by Pet_Ant »

I feel like the US is becoming like China. Very economically important obviously, but will end up culturally irrelevant. It's hard to build up that much ill-will and still be considered glamorous. I can be wrong, and this isn't my personal judgement, but a genuine prediction.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#496

Post by eapressoandcats »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #481
eapressoandcats wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s reasonable to conclude that Israel is more willing to continue to commit atrocities against the Palestinians than the US was against the Japanese. Like, I genuinely think Netanyahu is perusing a “ Lebensraum” strategy with Palestine. This is evidenced by their support of right wing Israeli settlers in Palestinian territory. I’ve come to this realization as a Jewish person who was brought up on “Israel ha…

That's an odd point of view. With Operation Downfall, the Americans were planning literal genocide against the Japanese. If they hadn't surrendered after the atomic bombs, the projections were as high as 5-10 MILLION Japanese casualties (with several hundred thousand on the Allied side), precisely because Japanese policy had been to arm the citizenry with rakes and hoes if it came to that - i.e., the Japanese refusal…

I fully agree that America was very willing to commit atrocities, especially using atomic bombs (obviously) and firebombing civilian centers.

The key difference is that the US recognized that Japan could surrender, accepted that surrender, and instituted regime change with a goal of democratic prosperity.

I’m not convinced Israel would do the same. They certainly haven’t said anything about actual regime change and setting up a legitimate government.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#497

Post by dijit »

santoshalper wrote: post #474
dijit wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really not my fight, I’m Swedish - not American. You’ll always be disappointed if you continue with this mindset though, the world will not bend to you because of your moral outrage, the best you can hope for is to open peoples eyes with understanding - not by calling everyone inhumane, disgusting or laying expectations at their feet.

I think mass murder is one area where we can safely feel moral outrage. It might not work, but it probably has a better chance of influencing the outcome than shrugging and saying "well, that's just how it is".

To be completely fair with you which mass murder should I be outraged at?

I was outraged with Uyghurs, I was outraged with Rwandans, I was outraged about the Tamils, Burma, the ISIL occupation, Boko Haram etc;etc;etc;

I’m old now, my outrage did nothing to prevent or assuage these conflicts and this conflict seems too muddy for me to get involved with, I can’t pick a side, both sides are killing each other and one is more successful than the other.

I don’t feel like beating people over the head with the conflict will actually stop anyone dying, even if we decided all of us together to bomb Israel off the map: that’s bad too. Nobody is coming to the table with anything even resembling a solution.

So, kindly, I will reserve my moral outrage to situations whereby I can make a difference, where I don’t have to watch both sides chanting death threats in schools about each other. I will not morally side with either.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#498

Post by landl0rd »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #493
landl0rd wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American dollars shouldn’t go to things that aren’t sources of soft or hard power for us, and they should be clawed back from things that are sources of soft power for china.

> American dollars shouldn’t go to things that aren’t sources of soft or hard power for us, and they should be clawed back from things that are sources of soft power for china. Fair enough. It's worth noting though, that China benefits when the US withdraws from stuff like this.

China has already thoroughly captured most of the whole UN. They would benefit if this weren’t already the case, which means stuff like closing VoA is still dumb. But UNESCO is among those they’ve captured. All removing funding does is reduce the power of a chinese agent.

Re: The United States withdraws from UNESCO

#500

Post by kindkang2024 »

kennywinker wrote: post #251

The US is complicit in the intentional starvation of gaza’s people by israel. At least 15 people have starved to death in the last 24 hours, including an infant. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-war-hunger-childre... Ragequitting UNESCO over their recognition of palestine is a small part of the project of supporting the ethnic cleansing of gaza and the west bank.

[flagged]
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