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What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

lumafield.com

241–250 of 308 posts

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel used to be infamous for doing this, if you'd like a western example. A number of the integrators I worked with added rules banning customer-supplied CPUs because Intel would give away "working" product to educational/other institutions that, uh, did not POST, and it was such a headache so often that they banned using the product.

what? that makes no sense, why would Intel do that?

Because the person at Intel giving them away wasn’t performance benchmarked on whether they worked or not?

Anytime you find a weird outcome, assume there’s an internal misaligned incentive in a company. (Or just laziness / incompetence)

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#242
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was this last paragraph necessary?

We're talking about culture differences about perception of accountability. Not necessary but definitely on topic.

Cultural differences is an easy sub for racism? Not suggesting bad faith but when it's hard to also take commentary on Asia with good faith here.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#243
They also moved from a toroidal SMPS to an integrated PMIC for voltage regulation - but that was likely for cost/weight reasons but also hints at being able to more accurately measure and limit the charge or discharge current as a function of the cell temperature. This design is typically less efficient (generates more heat for the same output) so that strongly hints that the overheating issue was not from the pcb/electronics directly and from the cells themselves.

The addition of what I assume is a temperature sensor on the cell in the new design also points to the addition of some charge/discharge regulation based on the active cell temperature that wasn't present in the original model.

Moving from busbar to insulated leads also suggests some recurring issues with bus bar short/contacts but was probably not the cause of the overheating issue as busbars usually have lower resistance and higher current capacity.

If I had to guess I would say the recall was very likely due to cell overheating on high discharge (PD in/out) in high temperature or high insulation (in a backpack or in the sun) situations where there was no thermal feedback from the cell to the controller and the cell was outside of the specification temperature. Thermal runaway is a known issue with lipo cells and can cause cell rupture and combustion.

I've had tons of other packs that have gotten too hot to touch during high charge/discharge and that have "pillowed" up (there is an entire amusingly-named subreddit for shaming cells that have done this... /r/spicypillows) and that is without putting them in a backpack or other insulating environment, or doing so in high ambient temperature. I think anker is likely singled out in the recall because of their size and not necessarily that they made a worse powerbank than most others... but that is only anecdotal based on how many off-brand powerbanks I've seen fail in the same way (bluehive, inui and safuel specifically, to name names) without any recalls or sanctions.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#244

They also moved from a toroidal SMPS to an integrated PMIC for voltage regulation - but that was likely for cost/weight reasons but also hints at being able to more accurately measure and limit the charge or discharge current as a function of the cell temperature. This design is typically less efficient (generates more heat for the same output) so that strongly hints that the overheating issue was not from the pcb/el…

To those saying it was the cell manufacturer (Amprius) that changed the cell specification without notifying buyers... as the one packaging the final component you are responsible for having sufficient safeguards in your QA/testing process and in your final product - you can't pass the blame to your suppliers.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#245
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have family in the auto industry, and they have similar stories. They'll get a shipment and it'll be out of spec. So they contact the vendor and the vendor will just say, "No, they're fine. Parts are good." No, they're out of spec and you need to fix them. Look, I can show you. "No, parts are good." And you'll go around and around like that. They won't care and won't budge. Until you say, "Well, since these are out…

Was this last paragraph necessary?

Truth is always necessary, I can confirm it about the Japanese - it can get really weird, a lot weirder than anything I've experienced with Chinese nationals.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#246
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh... I strongly disagree... We shouldn't let companies put out products that burn parents' house down because grandma didn't research 18650 protection circuits when she bought the grandkids some batteries for their toy on Amazon. Consumer product safety regulation is written in blood, and exists for a very good reason. Let the advanced right-to-repair audience open up the device with a screwdriver and install a new…

For products intended for kids, I like the idea of a screw on the battery door.

The screw on the battery door is typically a choking hazard mitigation. The idea being, if you know how to use a screwdriver, you are skilled enough to not eat the battery.

I think there’s still a big chasm between that level of skill and knowing there’s a difference between protected and unprotected 18650s… or even knowing what an 18650 is at all. Most people have never heard of them.

The right-to-repair “I know what I’m doing” crowd can disassemble the device as long as it isn’t glued shut.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#247
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anker should know better by this point. Changing specs without notifying customers is the basic formula of every Chinese manufacturer. They must have gotten lazy with their internal QA/QC processes and random sampling.

It clearly isn't the "basic formula" if it was so out of the norm it caused a national controversy and got the vendor's certifications removed. Your bitterness is showing.

No this is honestly par for the course in China - saying this as someone who manufactures millions of consumer devices there annually. You have to CONSTANTLY QA supplier materials to make sure no corners were cut.

We have an entire lab just to test upstream components (which LiPO pouch cells are part of) and most of the out-of-spec cases were suppliers changing components or assembly tooling/process. We had DC motors that were failing prematurely in products and after some forensic investigation found that the supplier changed the stator wiring to a nominally smaller diameter which was overheating and burning out - and they added more metal to the casing so they would weigh the same.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#248
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scale is definitely a huge part of it. China controls huge amounts of the earth’s (processed) lithium & rare earth metal supply: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/china-is-oversup... On top of that, the US does not have very many lithium or rare earth metal mines or processing facilities relative to our demand. But it’s hard to deny scale: the US is a populous country. But there are more than ONE BILLION mo…

> But it’s hard to deny scale: the US is a populous country. But there are more than ONE BILLION more people in China. This is true for the US alone, but US+Canada+EU is on the same order of magnitude, all of which prefer a more-than-zero-trust situation.

If you look at historic locations of hyperinnovation there are bunch of different things. One of which is density of the activity and the supply chain. Imagine needing a new gearset for a robot, you roll down to Gear Set Alley looking for a used unit, you hit 4 different robot wrecking yards, explaining to 5 people along the way. They eventually point you over to machine shop that has modified an existing part into exactly what you are looking for.

You can solve in a day what might take you a day, what might take you 20 days, 3x the price and a lead time of weeks. These kinds of hyperfocused, super dense innovation zones have existed in many places across all of time.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#249
post #88
post #21

FWIW this has caused a big storm in China. The root of the issue is known to be caused by the battery cell vendor Amprius changing the battery design w/o notifying the power bank manufacturers. AFAIKT Amprius lost the 3C certification (a certification in China) because of this incident. This is one of the Chinese reports on the issue: https://m.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_31048287 Excerpt from the report above (tr…

Amprius has released a statement: > Amprius Technologies, Inc. has never developed or manufactured batteries for power banks. For accuracy, please attribute the certification issue to Apex (Wuxi), not Amprius. Recent reports have incorrectly linked Amprius Technologies, Inc. to a battery certification issue. The company involved is Apex (Wuxi) Co., Ltd., formerly known as Amprius (Wuxi) Co., Ltd., a Chinese lithium b…

Spun it off in 2022 after the issue was known. Stay classy.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Tesla’s batteries have some sort of competitive advantage that Elon et al. don’t want to risk leaking to the rest of the world? (no idea if that’s the case, I have no specialized knowledge about batteries, just venturing a guess)

No, the cells themselves are fairly standard and built by third parties (Panasonic, LG, CATL), just co-located in Tesla's factories. The battery packs themselves have been pulled apart and studied by everyone, pretty much all EV manufacturers are doing similar things anyway, so no real special sauce anywhere anymore. Now there are more mature EV players in the game, innovations are happening from many manufacturers n…

Thanks for the explanation! It’s always nice to learn something new :)
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