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George Gilder: Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed

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Re: George Gilder: Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed

#41
Data Points:

Since 1970, global population increased by 91% Since 1970, global aggregate GDP increased by 540% (in constant $)

I think that means that 540/1.91 = ~2.8x increase in per-person productivity on a global basis over the last 40 years. I would contend that capitalism drives productivity increases to a greater degree than communism or socialism, simply based on the fact that 8 of the top 10 economies in the world are arguably capitalist. (counting France as socialist and China as something else, not sure what at this point).

A better statistician than I can weigh in with wealth distribution, and I am betting that the average world citizen is better off today than 40 years ago, primarily due to capitalism.

Re: George Gilder: Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed

#42

I'm not sure this random collection of quotes is a great starting point for a discussion as broad as what "capitalism is". Especially quotes that come in an election year from a non-economist mainly famous for his GOP activism. If you do want an argument in favor of the information-aggregation view of markets, and what is required for them to work in practice, F.A. Hayek provides a better analysis.

The form and the substance of this piece are characterized by bits and pieces of ideas and 'analyis' that are neither here nor there. So I agree with you. Also recommend adding Coase as a complement to your suggestion of Hayek.

Re: George Gilder: Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed

#43
"Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed"

Really? Then someone please inform the capitalists.

So when, for example, a large multinational executes workers demanding better pay and conditions in third world country factories, it's all about information and knowledge.

Mainly, the knowledge that killing those guys will send a message to the rest of the workers, and keep the factory costs down.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Coke-Machine-Behind-Favorite/dp/15...

Just an example. There are million others, from lobbying and having special laws made for them in western countries, to setting up governments of people they approve and taking down governments they don't like in so called "Banana republics".

http://www.amazon.com/The-Coke-Machine-Behind-Favorite/dp/15...

Re: George Gilder: Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed

#44

Sure, whatever. It doesn't matter what "Capitalism" is. Evolution has made human-nature greedy. And all these systems (capitalism, consumerism, socialism, communism, anarchy, have one overriding commonality; they're implementors, regulators, and constituent parts are all human. Whom, in the aggregate, follow human-nature (by definition). No matter what system you think we have (or should), what system they tell us we…

Appeals to some evolution-determined human nature fall flat for me. The greatest thing evolution endowed humans with is conscious reasoning that can overcome our cognitive instincts. You will see even great humans revert to their instincts when situations are dire, but the project of civilization is to eliminate those situations.

Trying to frame _every_ human goal as a form of greed/self-interest/winning is tautological. There are substantial differences in the way humans experience altruistic, compassionate self-interest and individualistic, combative self-interest.

Certainly we can experience varied social arraignments emphasizing different negotiations between every individual's self-interest. When one's argument considers the vast history of human societies and reduces them to all to self-interest enablers, is it saying anything at all?

Re: George Gilder: Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed

#45
post #40
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of engineers don't get evolution because engineers tend to think there is one best way to do something. How could evolution ever discover the "answer," they think? This is endlessly reinforced in school. You get right answers and wrong answers on tests, but that's because school tests are toy problems not real problems. In reality there are better answers and worse answers and worse-is-better answers and ugly-h…

Also; engineers should be aware of genetic algorithms which work so well they are used by NASA ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_antenna ). Anyone who doesn't understand evolution is a fact is basically being willfully ignorant at this point.

OT, but: "[they] work so well they are used by NASA" is hardly an argument.

NASA can also use piss poor technology. Remember that Challenger disaster?

Plus, wasn't NASA that did the BS publicity stunt of the supposed discovery of "life based on arsenic"?

Re: George Gilder: Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed

#46
Capitalism is only possible where knowledge is shared unequally. For example, if many people knew how to obtain the proper license or whatever and where to go to buy wholesale, then they would bypass retailers entirely. Similarly, if many people had knowledge about how to start a business and knew several friendly venture capitalists or bank officers, many of them would start their own businesses and there would be few people to do the actual work.

Having said that, I think its important to emphasize some of the things that capitalism gets right: it is still a relatively open and distributed system that is able to evolve more freely than systems that are less so. Open in that many people can actually apply for loans etc. and start their own businesses. Distributed in that there are numerous options and usually no single point of failure.

I don't think that greed is necessarily fundamental to human nature. That's an oversimplification. Humans do need to compete sexually, but I don't think that extreme hierarchies are necessarily a requirement for that. Much of what is considered human nature is just the current state of our culture.

I think its hard to create a system that operates consistently and soundly as a whole but at the same time is robust, distributed and free to develop in different directions.

However, I believe sure that we can improve our current situation by injecting a more egalitarian belief system as well as more science and technology into the power structure and its operating principles, which means the financial system. For example, "economics" is now mainly gaming strategies for maintaining point (monetary) counts and the power that goes with them. But because economics is so critical to human decision making, it must at some point incorporate human needs, social science, and physical science such as ecology. There is a false belief that somehow these monetary gaming strategies and point/goods exchange systems (the economy) incorporate scientific knowledge, measurement, and technological knowledge automatically. That is not the case currently.

One of the problems with all of the systems, capitalistic or anti-capitalistic, is the tendency to move, either quickly or more slowly, towards centralization. When wealth/power as well as goods and services production concentrates it leads to vast inequality, poor distribution, stagnation, inability to cope with local conditions, etc.

I think we need to do a better job of centralizing information schemas and holistic knowledge but do that in a way that does not compromise the ability to evolve those knowledgebases and distribute production or lead towards centralization of power, etc. Its not easy, but I think its a technological problem we can solve.

Re: George Gilder: Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed

#47

Capitalism has its problems, but its critical selling point is that, if it works well, you don't need official approval to do business. In the USSR, it was a crime to compete with the one established business: the state. Fusions of state and business power (whether from the left, as in communism, or from the right, as in fascism) are almost always bad. The major win (practical and moral) in capitalism is the right of…

...or from the right, as in fascism...

Fascism was (by modern US standards) a center-left ideology. It emphasizes collectivism/corporatism, authoritarianism and nationalism.

You are also using the term "corporatism" incorrectly. Corporatism is a political system which elevates the rights of privileged corporates (a better modern term would be "special interest groups") above the rights of individuals. A good example of modern corporatism would be disparate impact-based policies - e.g., "we shouldn't allow this neighborhood to gentrify because a privileged corporate might disproportionately move out of this neighborhood."

I think what you meant by "corporatism" is actually "cronyism".

Re: George Gilder: Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed

#48

Sure, whatever. It doesn't matter what "Capitalism" is. Evolution has made human-nature greedy. And all these systems (capitalism, consumerism, socialism, communism, anarchy, have one overriding commonality; they're implementors, regulators, and constituent parts are all human. Whom, in the aggregate, follow human-nature (by definition). No matter what system you think we have (or should), what system they tell us we…

Instincts are all well and good. The problems arise when they get out of control: whether it's the instinct for food, the instinct for sex, the instinct for more, the instinct for curiosity. When you are in control of your instincts, things work. When your instincts run you, you're headed for trouble.

Greed, under control, can be valuable. Greed uber alles, leads to parasites like Romney getting filthily richer by doing things like bankrupting KP Toys.

Re: George Gilder: Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed

#49
post #14

I have a very tough time rationalizing this guy's futurism with the rest of his opinions. Of course, I guess compartmentalization and contradiction are common elements of the human condition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gilder

A real piece of work. I hadn't seen his wiki article before I watched him debate Peter Thiel on "Accelerating or Decelerating? Prospects for technology and economic growth"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRrLyckg8Nc

Re: George Gilder: Capitalism is based on information and knowledge, not greed

#50
post #46

Capitalism is only possible where knowledge is shared unequally. For example, if many people knew how to obtain the proper license or whatever and where to go to buy wholesale, then they would bypass retailers entirely. Similarly, if many people had knowledge about how to start a business and knew several friendly venture capitalists or bank officers, many of them would start their own businesses and there would be f…

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